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CITIZEN ADVOCACY PANEL (CAP) Brooklyn District Meeting Minutes Date: October 8, 1999 Time: 6:00-9:20 PM Location: CAP Office: 10 MetroTech Center, 625 Fulton Street 6th Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11201 Panel Members Attending Jim Montes, Chairperson Kevin McKeon, Acting DFO Marjorie Louer Horace Aiken Ed Maher Matt Mihovich Laura Greenberg Ethel Richards Burton Kahn John Rotondi IRS Staff Attending Ellen Murphy, District Director Eileen Cain, CAP Manager Louis Morizio, CAP Analyst Leonides Rivera, CAP Secretary Absentees Kristen Bailey Guests Ira Moseley, CAP Analyst Melinda Rivera Marie Nahikian, Vice Chairperson Tony Fandozzi
Public Attendees None Opening and Review of Minutes of August 17, 1999 Panel Member Maher called the meeting to order, as the Chairperson would be late and the Vice-Chairperson was not there. Maher asked if there were any changes to the minutes from August 17. Panel member Greenberg stated that there was no consistency since both first names and last names were used at different places in the minutes. The panel wants the last name used throughout, e.g. Panel member Greenberg. Panel member Kahn made a motion to accept the minutes and Greenberg seconded it. The minutes were approved without changes.
CAP Staff Changes Acting DFO McKeon stated that he was acting for the Taxpayer Advocate, Kristen Bailey and that Eileen Cain is now officially the new CAP Manager. Leonides Rivera will remain as the CAP secretary until a new one is hired. Interviews for the two CAP analyst positions will be set up for next week.
Public Meetings
September 22 Meeting - Review & Comments
Panel Member Maher wanted to get everyone's impressions and comments about the first Public Meeting held by the Brooklyn CAP on 9/22/99:
Panel Member Greenberg - Was quite pleased with how the meeting turned out, although she would have been happier if more people had showed up. She was impressed with how prepared and eloquent the speakers were. She suggested that, in the future, the Chairperson needs to stress the independence of the panel from the IRS.
Panel Member Mihovich - Did not like the look of the paid advertisements that appeared in the newspapers, especially the Daily News, which was "lost" on the page. He was pleased with the quality of the speakers, but was disappointed that they didn't have a larger turnout. He was also pleased that Brooklyn Cable and Television videotaped the event and is eager to see it from the audience's point of view, although the movement of the microphones was quite awkward.
Acting DFO McKeon - Though it was an excellent meeting at a great facility. The panel had a tendency to answer the taxpayer, when it should just listen to them and thank them for their participation. The ads cost $9,000 and were not really cost effective. He thinks the panel should have a higher turnout in Long Island.
Panel Member Aiken - Skipped over since he was out sick during the meeting.
Panel Member Richards - Was disappointed with the article that appeared in the NY Times. The reporter expected an adversarial meeting and slanted his questions to that angle. At the next meeting, the panel should be armed with responses to counteract that opinion.
Panel member Maher agrees with Richards and thinks the panel should send a letter to the editor. A discussion ensued, where it was decided not to take any action on this article and to move on to concentrate on future, positive results.
Panel Member Rotondi - It was an excellent meeting, but we should have started on time.
Panel Member Louer - Resented the slant of the NY Times reporter, who did not catch the positive flavor of the meeting. He followed the party line of criticizing the IRS.
Panel Member Maher - Agrees with Rotondi that the meeting should have started on time. For the next meeting, an adjustment should be made to the schedule to allow 30 minutes (from 6:30 - 7:00 PM) for registration. The building was terrific but hard to find. He was very disappointed that the ads did not work. The Chairperson made a good presentation, but needs to emphasize the independence of the CAP from IRS.
Panel Member Kahn - The meeting was a good start and just the beginning. He blames the poor turnout on several factors - the start of school, we're not in tax season, etc. He also felt there were too many IRS personnel in attendance, which may have scared people. He was personally guilty of being adversarial with one of the speakers and he will not do that the next time.
He asked if people had to register. Maher explained that people did not have to give names on the registration forms.
Panel member Maher turned the meeting over to Chairperson Montes, who then gave his comments about the meeting. It was started late purposely since people were still registering. The only two IRS persons he introduced were District Director Murphy and Taxpayer Education Coordinator Ed Parenti. The rest of the audience could not have known how many IRS personnel were sitting in the auditorium. He agrees that he should have stressed the independence of the CAP more. Even though he would have liked more people in attendance, the number compared favorably to South Florida's meetings.
Panel member Greenberg wanted to congratulate the planning committee.
November 17 Meeting - Update
Several members of the panel checked several possible sites for the next public meeting. The one site they liked was booked, while the others were not good due to location, parking facilities, or setting. Maher proposed that the meeting be postponed to January. That would give them enough time to find a site, send out flyers and advertise. Any good event needs more time and planning than the six weeks remaining.
McKeon stated that in a perfect world we would like to have the time. However, the panel already has National Taxpayer Advocate Val Oveson lined up for the meeting and the IRS has already publicized the date. He feels that the panel can schedule the meeting in the time remaining. Director Murphy agreed with McKeon. According to her, the tax practitioner community is available in November because of the BSC symposium. Chairperson Montes does not want to have Val Oveson there without an audience
Maher thinks we should get space in a hotel right near the symposium and can send notification to all of the practitioners on BSC's mailing list. If the staff can do that, the panel will have a captive audience. Chairperson noted that Val Oveson is scheduled to appear at the symposium on 11/18, so the CAP will have him first. A discussion then took place as to the time frame of the meeting. Ultimately, it was decided to list the meeting time as 6:30-9:00 PM, which allows time for registration.
Panel member Maher will try to get Long Island Channel 55 interested in videotaping the meeting.
Reports of the Working Committees
Language Diversity
Panel member Mihovich detailed a sub-committee meeting held with Director Murphy, Collection Division Chief Ron Boyea, Taxpayer Advocate Bailey, Panel member Greenberg and Communications Manager McKeon. The focus of the meeting was on the kiosk machine that has been purchased by Customer Service for the upcoming filing season. Director Murphy will see to the procurement process for the machine, which will cost $10-12,000. The machine cannot fit in the either the Brooklyn or Rego Park office due to the traffic flow and restrictions by the landlords. Therefore, the sub-committee is going to try to get the kiosk into the Queens Public Library, Flushing Branch. Mihovich feels strongly that this is the best place for the kiosk. As a backup, the machine can always be placed in the Garden City IRS office.
The machine will provide information in four languages - English, Spanish, Chinese, and Korean - for the questions and answers. The languages were chosen for the type of person who visits IRS walk-in offices. The forms will be in English and can be printed. The system is divided into two sections. Section 1 contains the forms. There will not be any instructions and the forms will be limited to two double-sided pages. Section 2 will contain the FAQs.
Greenberg has a printout of the Q & As from the New Jersey IRS kiosk. The answers are too long and must be abridged. The questions must also be edited. She will meet with the walk-in employees from Rego Park to get an idea of what questions are asked and what answers are provided to the public. Mihovich will give the questions a general structure so that the panel can review them.
After a first draft is completed, the questions will be given to Director Murphy, who will then provide them to District Council for review of the language. Director Murphy feels that the panel should only rewrite certain topics, such as questions pertaining to small business and EITC, so that the entire process does not get held up while Counsel is reviewing the questions. The remaining questions can keep their verbatim publication language for now. Panel member Maher agrees with this, since any extensive rewrite would hold up the process, and he would like the machine in operation for the filing season.
Once the questions have been set and translated, the vendor will provide the FAQs on a computer disk, so the CAP can share that information by downloading it onto other organizations' web sites or producing brochures in other languages. The machine will have some level of interaction, but that will be kept to a minimum. Also, the machine will record the statistics on the number of people accessing the machine and what language they are using. There was some concern about this, but, as Mihovich reminded the panel, this is a test. The panel and the IRS need to determine how many people are using the kiosk or pick up a brochure, the number of hits on the CAP web site and how many other web sites pick up this information. The results of this test will determine if other machines will be put into service.
Director Murphy also mentioned two other language issues in the district. Both Manhattan and Brooklyn will soon provide training to the walk-in employees on vendor-provided phone translation services. In addition, Examination Division is looking to put envelope stuffers in various languages to try to get people to call about their audit notice, and to cut down on the no-show rate.
Earned Income Tax Credit
Panel member Greenberg reported on the work of the subcommittee. She has a meeting set with the National EITC Coordinator, Candace Cromling on October 14, 1999 from 6-8:00 PM.
Every panel member has received a copy of the draft recommendations. Any comments or suggestions are due by 10/15 so that a final version can be submitted for full panel approval at the next meeting.
The sub-committee is now focusing on the draft Publication 596 for 1999 and any comments about the pub are due by 10/30. They will concentrate on any glaring issues for this year, but their comments will probably not have any effect until next year.
Linda Mulvaney, Staff Assistant to the Director of Forms and Publications, informed the sub-committee that some of their recommendations have been used in the form for this filing season. She also wants to meet with the panel to get CAP input on other forms and publications. Panel member Richards asked if we know what forms or pubs yet? Greenberg said no. Chairperson thinks it's wonderful that the IRS came back to the panel after getting their input on EITC and is using the panel as a resource. The panel decided to form a new sub-committee for this issue consisting of the following panel members:
The new Forms & Publications Sub-committee will set up a meeting on November 3 at 6:00 PM in the Brooklyn Office.
8109-B Payment Coupons
Panel member Kahn stated there are two issues in his proposal (see attached). The first recommendation is to train the walk-in employees in the proper procedures for giving out the 8109-B. The second recommendation is for practitioners - 25 copies of the form should be given to practitioners if they request it over the counter with their letterhead. The panel reached consensus that the recommendation should go to Val Oveson.
Panel member Kahn also discussed his proposals on Schedule R and Schedule D (see attached). For the Schedule R, Kahn proposes that the limitations on income and non-taxable Social Security should be indexed for inflation, which would require a legislative change. Chairperson asked if any other organizations, such as AARP, have made this recommendation to Congress and, if not, why it has not been made. Panel member Mihovich asked Kahn if the inflationary increase should be in one lump sum, in annual increments or a combination of both. Kahn did not have the answers to these questions. Panel member Maher stated that this proposal needs additional research. Chairperson agreed that they should look into it further and they should also try to get the support of AARP.
For the Schedule D, Kahn geared the proposal toward Capital Gain Distributions and stated that this is a very complex issue since capital gains are not taxed as ordinary income. He does not think that for small CGDs, the taxpayer should have to complete Part IV of the form. Greenberg feels that any discussion of the Schedule D should wait until after the meeting with Linda Mulvaney. Mihovich recommended forming a sub-committee to look at the Schedule D and to make a more concrete recommendation.
Standing Committees
Letter of Introduction
Vice-Chairperson was not present so this issue was tabled.
Outreach
A. CBOs - Panel member Richards stated she gave additional names and addresses of community based organizations (CBOs) to the CAP secretary. She also asked why more taxpayers are not approaching the CAP with their individual problems. Greenberg feels that the CAP bookmark does not make it clear that the CAP can help with problems. The bookmarks are being revised to show the CAP Web address.
B. Practitioners - Panel member Rotondi wrote a 500 word article for The Trusted Professional and panel member Aiken wrote an article for The CPA Letter. On September 18, Aiken attended a meeting of the National Society of Accountants, which had some influence in the IRS Restructuring Act. During that meeting, he was given two proposals to take to the CAP (see attached). One proposal deals with having the POA right on the tax return, while the other proposal is a Taxpayer Representative Bill of Rights. The organization wants the CAP to work with them.
Performance Measures
CAP Analyst Morizio detailed the meeting held in Denver Colorado. Representatives from all four CAPs were present, along with Don Beck from the Gallup Organization, Evan Hochberg from Booz-Allen Hamilton and Mike Lewis from the Treasury Department. Morizio was there, along with panel member Fandozzi, representing the Brooklyn District CAP. During the meeting, consensus was reached among all interested parties as to the final version of the performance measures.
Morizio also explained how the survey of CAP panels, CAP staff, IRS officials and Treasury officials will be conducted. The Gallup Organization will develop a 5 minute telephone survey, using a 5 point scale and a method for giving additional comments. Ratings can be entered using the telephone keypad. The final version of the performance measures was distributed (see attached). Panel member Greenberg congratulated Fandozzi and Morizio for the vast improvement of the measures from their original first draft to the final version.
Web Site Update
Maher advised the panel that some updates to the site have been done, including the minutes from the last several meetings and the addition of an occupation to the panel listing. There are several items he would like to see on the site:
Maher explained to the panel the purpose of the photo release form. This form is necessary only if they submit a photo to be used, not to give permission to be in a photo. In other words, the photographer of the picture, not the subject, needs to sign the release form.
Mihovich asked about the number of hits the site has received. The staff will get that information.
New business/Open Discussions
Panel member Rotondi stated that Bill Stevenson from the National Society of Accountants had told him about a new proposal to reduce refunds or assess additional tax if the spouse's social security number is invalid. Director Murphy explained what the current procedures are when the secondary social security number is invalid and also what may happen if this proposal is adopted. Rotondi was very concerned about this issue.
Panel member Aiken told the panel about a visit he and Taxpayer Advocate Bailey had made to the Chinese Community Center. An issue that is important to the immigrant community was brought to his attention. Aliens who file US tax returns cannot claim dependent exemptions for non-residents. Aiken had promised that he would raise this issue with the CAP to see if they wanted to tackle it. Panel member Maher feels that this is an issue that the CAP cannot do anything about. The panel agreed that this is not a CAP issue.
Director Murphy asked the panel if they wanted follow-up meetings with the taxpayers who spoke at the public meeting. She can meet with the taxpayer, a representative of the panel and a member of the CAP staff. Panel member Greenberg volunteered to be the deputy in charge of meeting with the taxpayers. In addition, a new sub-committee formed to investigate statutes. The Statute sub-committee consists of panel members Rotondi and Maher.
Adjournment
The meeting adjourned at 9:21 P.M.
I hereby certify that, to the best of my knowledge, the foregoing minutes are accurate and complete.
Jim Montes, Chairperson
The Panel at its next meeting will formally consider these minutes, and any corrections or notations will be incorporated in the minutes of that meeting.
Attachments:
10/19/99
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