March 6, 2003

The SBSE Reducing Taxpayer Burden Issue Committee met via teleconference on Tuesday, March 6, 2003.

Members in Attendance:

• James Abraham, P.E., Gahanna, OH
• Clayton Agena, Honolulu, Hi
• Norma Bishop, Santa Barbara, CA
• Charlotte Cassady, Talbotton, GA
• Justin Doucette, Las Vegas, NV
• David Meyer, Voorhees, NJ
• Theodore Perros, Washington, D.C.
• Mary Peterson-O'Brien, DFO
• Nancy Quales, Southfield, MI
• Charles Silva, Provincetown, MA
• Leonard Steinberg, Chair, West Windsor, NJ
• Frank Woods, Emory, TX

Other Attendees:

• Margie Kinney, Program Owner
• Dan Rinke, CCH
• Marla Ofilas, Note Taker

Attachments

• Agenda
• Research on Form 8109

Roll Call
Marla Ofilas took a roll call and informed Leonard that 9 members were present. Leonard concluded that nine members was an official quorum and Mary O'Brien agreed.

Welcome/Announcements/Review Agenda
Leonard began by reviewing the agenda.

• 4) Sub-Committee Chair Reports
• 5) Comments, Recommendations, Proposals
• 6) Schedule of activities for the next month by sub-committee
• 7) Any updates from Issue Owner - Margie
• 8) Old business or issues to discuss
• 9) New Issues or business to discuss
• 10) Report on the Joint Committee actions - Leonard
• 11) Close the meeting

With the recommendation of Charles Silva and by consensus of all panel members, the agenda was amended to start with any updates from the IRS issue owner.

Updates from the Issue Owner
Margie Kinney reported on her participation with the two subcommittees, reporting and deposits. She gave an overview of their surveys and her excitement about what they were doing and had already accomplished.

Margie discussed an issue referred to the SB/SE Payroll Tax Issue Committee from the Area 6 TAP Committee The issue concerns practitioner complaints about the difficulty in obtaining IRS Form 8109b, Federal Tax Deposit coupons. It was suggested that the Deposit sub-committee review this issue and decide if they need to do more research or gather information then bring it to the full committee to discuss. Leonard felt that this is more of an internal IRS issue rather than a deposit issue. According to the analysis, the practitioners are not able to receive the forms.

Margie explained that the Form 8109b is a coupon used by employers (taxpayers) to submit deposits. The IRS sends this out the coupons in a booklet with the business taxpayer identification number printed on each coupon. The employers are able to indicate what the deposit is for. The problem arises when an employer runs out of coupons. The employer is unable to receive another coupon book right away. It takes about 10 days for the IRS to reissue a new book. In the interim, the only way they may make a deposit is for the taxpayer to go to an IRS office where an IRS representative will fill out the Form 8109b for them. This procedure is to assure the form is properly filled out. Practitioners feel that blank Form 8109b's should be more available. From the research Area 6 did, it was discovered that the IRS has this procedure in place to decrease errors. There is reluctance on the part of the IRS to change the process. So this issue has come to the panel to do something about the scarcity of the blank form and their lack of availability. Margie's interest is to know how the committee feels once the research is completed and taken into inconsideration:

• The current process reduces many errors and
• There are alternatives that are immediately available to the taxpayer which are making payments by phone, internet or using electronic fund transfers (FTPS systems)

Leonard suggested that instead of having the forms printed, the Form 8109b should be put on a diskette. The taxpayer will have the availability to change the date and mail the diskette to the IRS on a quarterly basis. Some taxpayers may not feel comfortable paying a charge to use the phone or to use FTPS.

Margie felt that the deposit subcommittee would be able to discuss this issue and look at all the implications and make a recommendation to the IRS.

Decision: The panel agreed by consensus that the Deposit sub-committee would consider the Form 8109b issue.

Justin Doucette strongly agreed with the committee that the issue should go to the Deposit sub-committee. Charles also suggested that this should be something included in the survey. Margie reviewed the survey and felt a question could be added.

Leonard inquired from the panel if there were more comments or suggestions and none were given.

Old business or issues to discuss
Leonard asked the members if there were any old business or issues that needed to be discussed. None were given and the panel moved on to the next agenda item.

New Issues or business to discuss
Leonard asked the members if there were other issue that needed to be discussed. Charles requested that if any documents used during the conference calls, should be sent 72 hours prior to the call. This will help the members be prepared during the call. Leonard and the panel members agreed and asked to be noted in the minutes.

Action: All documents should be should be sent at least 72 hours prior to the conference call.

Leonard asked Clayton Agena if he has heard any comments regarding Form 8109b. Clayton has not heard anything to date but informed the committee that the sub-committee will be sending out their survey and should hear comments at that time.

Theodore Perros had a suggestion for the panel concerning an issue that he is working on. It pertains to instructional materials giving out by the IRS concerning the appearance of various tax forms. He suggested that the instructional information be color coordinated with tax forms and specifically line items. Leonard felt it was a good idea but also felt that someone may come up with a political correct idea that we are infringing on those that are color blind. Mary also felt that this is an issue that would need to go to an Area committee because it is broader in scope. Margie also added that the area committee should also consider what would the additional cost.

James Abraham discussed proposals and ideas that taxpayers raise that require legislative action. In his Area committee, it is the policy that they are not accepting any issues that requires legislative action because the panels are not lobbyist. Leonard added that this issue was brought up in the Joint Committee and they felt there should be some recognition of those issues which would be legislative and pass those issues on to Nina Olson, NTA, for possible inclusion in the NTA report to congress. The Joint Committee feels strongly that if the issue is legislative in nature, the panel may not have the ability to do anything about it ; however, it should be part of the TAP function to pass the issue and the perceived impact on taxpayers to the NTA because it is the responsibility of the panel to represent taxpayers.

Action: By consensus, it was agreed that Leonard would elevate to the Joint Committee that there is confusion concerning procedures for legislative issues as well as the thoughts of the committee. Leonard will report back on the next conference call.

Report on the Joint Committee Actions
Leonard gave a report out of the February 18th, Joint Committee teleconference.

Tom Seunjens, TAP Chair, will be working on guidelines on how to handle legislative issues. This issue will be discussed during the next Joint Committee teleconference.

Leonard discussed how issues flow into the Joint Committee and how an issue is elevated from the joint committee to either the specific area committee, specific issue committee or to the ad hoc committee. A process is being developed to ensure all issues will be addressed.

The Joint Committee also addressed the time commitment expected of panel members. There have been some resignations due to the pressure some members feel when not being able to give the amount of time that has been expected. Initially, members were told that they should expect to volunteer at least 300 hours a year but now members feel it's 300 hours a month. It was suggested to alleviate the burden on the actively participating members, by encouraging those members not contributing to participate more. The Joint Committee will continue to work this issue.

An issue has come up from Area 3 to the Joint Committee that has to do with expanded power of attorney's rights for the check box on Form 1040. The committee would like to see the powers extended to subsequence notices rather then it being limited in scoop. The committee is waiting for historical information from Barbara Toy.

Leonard continued by explaining that Deryle Temple, TAP Director, is in the process of adding staff members to TAP and it should help elevate some of the burden that the TAP employees are experiencing. Leonard concluded by assuring the members that between the issue committees and area committees, all issues are addressed and is put in a monthly report and is not ignored. Joint Committee is trying to work out it's own method of dealing with issues and should be getting more guidance from the TAP Chair during the next teleconference.

Sub-Committee Chair Reports
Leonard introduced Norma Bishop, chair, of the Fed/State sub-committee. Norma referred to an email that she sent out. Attached was a copy of the report out of the New Orleans meeting, which also included the tasking for the various members and a first draft of a matrix. The purpose of the matrix is to organize the responses from a survey. Margie requested a copy of the email that was sent and Norma agreed. Norma concluded her report out and Leonard moved on to the next sub-committee.

Theodore Perros discussed the survey and questioner prepared by the deposit subcommittee. The sub-committee is working on the final version. This version will be sent out to everyone for a review.

Action: Mary will receive the survey from Denise Bigger by March 7th and she will forward the survey out everyone.

Clayton Agena gave an update for the Reporting Sub-committee. A draft survey has been created and the group is in the process of requested comments. An addition needs to be made regarding what could the IRS do to encourage greater use of electronic filing.

Decision: Leonard suggested that if anyone sends out materials, even though it is sub-committee work, that it would be in everyone's interest that the entire committee receives a copy of it. All the members agreed if it's the final product of the sub-committee.

Margie made a final comment relevant to sharing the surveys among each other; make sure the committee is aware of the delivery method of the survey. To illustrate, the Deposit survey will be mailed out to individuals to complete, and the survey on reporting will be an oral interview.

Comments, Recommendations, Proposals
Leonard moved on to the next agenda item by commenting that each of the sub committee will be working independently until the next teleconference scheduled for May 1st @ 3:00 pm. Leonard asked if anyone had any suggestions or comments to email them to either him or Mary.

Leonard concluded the call and asked if there any comments from the public. No comments from the public were given and the call was concluded.