Wage & Investment Reduce Taxpayer Burden (Notices) Meeting Minutes

March 24, 2004
Noon-ET

Participants (Panel Members):

• Mary Balmer
• Phil Bryant
• Anthony DiMartino
• C. Morgan Edwards
• Charles (Skip) Eshelman
• Robin Gausebeck
• John Hollingsworth
• William Murphy
• David Robinson
• Thomas Seuntjens
• George Sullivan
• Jeana Warren
• Nancy Ferree - DFO

Not Present:

• Curtis Feese
• Eileen Shuman
• Virginia Symonds

Staff Members:

• Sallie Chavez (Recorder)

Guests

• James (Jim) A. Cesarano, Program Analyst, Wage & Investment, Single Point of Contact (SPOC)
• Ann Gelineau, Wage & Investment, Single Point of Contact (SPOC)

Welcome
Committee Chair Skip Eshelman welcomed everyone. He said Committee vice Chair Eileen Shuman would not be joining the conference call today because she is attending a family funeral

Program Analyst/Recorder Sallie Chavez took the roll call and quorum was met.

Review/Approve Minutes of February 26 & 27, 2004
The minutes were approved by consensus.

Old Business

Face-to-Face Meeting in Atlanta
Everyone said it was a good meeting. No one had any additional comments.

August Face-to-Face Meeting
TAP Program Analyst Sallie Chavez asked for suggestions on where the face-to-face meeting should be held. There were several suggestions. TAP Program Analyst Chavez suggested that since there were several members absent she would send out an email to the entire committee asking for the top three cities to have the meeting. The results will be analyzed and next meeting a city will be announced based on the selections by all the committee members.

Comments from SPOC Representative
SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano began by stating he had several items to get to the committee. He thinks he has gotten everything to TAP Analyst Sallie Chavez. This includes his NPIIT report, the newest CP2000, Usability Study on the CP2000, the CP2000 Test from the Nationwide Tax Forum last summer and the customer survey that Committee Member Robin Gausebeck requested. SPOC Ann Gelineau stated that this is only a draft. She does not think too much will change but the final should be ready in a week or two. SPOC Representative Cesarano said that Committee Member Eileen Shuman asked for a copy of the CP22A however it is not available electronically. He is trying to get a paper copy. If he does he will send it to TAP Analyst Chavez as well.

TAP Program Analyst Sallie Chavez said she has received all of this information and is in the process of having it sent out to the committee. They should have it by next week.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano said another item the committee requested was upcoming plans. This spring the Small Business/Self-Employed (SB/SE) Single Point of Contract (SPOC) along with the Wage and Investment (W & I) SPOC is chartering a Dynamic Project Team (DPT) to look at CP500 series notices (collection notices) that includes the CP501, CP503 and CP504. SPOC Ann Gelineau said this is still in the planning stages. Instead of breaking it up into program areas such as balance due versus current delinquencies versus installment agreements, they are looking at the “very high impact notices”, such as intent to levy or take law enforcement action, to group them together. There is no team leader yet. Until there is a team leader on board it's not a “done deal”. All the other notices will be part of the second effort and the goal is to have the same team members work on both efforts. This will be a huge undertaking combined volume of over 54 million notices. Once these notices have gone into production we will have 86% of the notice volume simplified. SB/SE is sponsoring this and they welcome the TAP to be stakeholders. The program owner is not comfortable having the TAP as team members. She is extremely disappointed with that.

Committee Member Mary Balmer asked who is on the team. SPOC Ann Gelineau said they haven't formed the entire team yet but they will have a Team Leader, a Document Design Expert (which will be a vendor) and what is called an archivist. Ann McCann will be the Document Design Expert and Jay Duffy will shadow her to learn what she does so that this can eventually be done in-house. Linda Lightner will be the Archivist. The Team Leader has not been named yet.

Committee Member Tom Seuntjens commented that as an issue committee working with the service to be part of the process rather than afterwards trying to look at items that have already been released or so far along before we get to look at them. Concerned about how this process can be improved if these teams don't allow us to be part of the team or review the process as it materializes. SPOC stated that Committee Member Tony DiMartino participated in the beginning effort of the CP71 project and she would like to know how he felt about that. He said he wrote a report on it and sent it to the chair and vice chair and should have sent it to her. He thought it was great. It was very effective. There was some criticism about the penalty and interest portion. Not one of the test individuals could understand it. It was very professionally done. He will send his report to SPOC Ann Gelineau.

SPOC Ann Gelineau stated the CP71 is being used as a model and she didn't own the process. She had to adhere to the vision so that the vendor would document the model as envisioned by the Notice Modernization Team. She only has control over any W & I teams. It is critical for her to hear from Committee Member Tony DiMartino because he participated in several phases of the team even though he wasn't an official member of the team. He participated in the requirements phase where the team went through several conditions as anybody who is external for the team to use during development.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano said that SB/SE SPOC doesn't have a problem with the TAP scoring the before and after notice. He also he would welcome them as external stakeholders such as requirement meetings.

SPOC Ann Gelineau said there are several key milestone events during this process where the TAP can participate. These include the requirement phase, doing before and after scoring notices, observing usability testing and somewhere else possibly doing some review.

SPOC Ann Gelineau said that as soon as they get the model they will be asking TAP to be team members. She is concerned that the committee feels that they are being given “busy work” in doing the scoring of the notices. It is very easy for Jim Cesarano to capture the taxpayer's point of view. It is easy for a coworker to say it's only to say it's only his opinion. However when we get an opinion from an external stakeholder group it can't be ignored. It gives it more validation. Even thought it may be tedious, she would be grateful.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano stated that what might be most useful is to have the TAP score the CP500 series. SPOC Ann Gelineau agreed that any of the CP500 series or any notice starting with LT or LP. At least 75% – 80% of the complaints received by the IRS come from the taxpayer about notices in the CP500 series notices and the LT and LP notices. These go out in the millions. The monthly installment agreement notice is not legislatively required but we send out 30 something million of them a year.

Committee Member Tony DiMartino said he saw the price for the installment agreement. Is that cost to send out a notice 47¢ for each one that goes out? SPOC Representative said it is a rough calculation and that is notices that are not sent certified cost about 47¢ to send out. The cost goes up when they are sent certified. There is a higher cost that might be $3.00 to $4.00. SPOC Ann Gelineau said that there are also notices that have to go to notice review and when you calculate in labor dollars added on additional costs. Committee Member DiMartino said that's a lot of money when you are sending out 30 million notices.

Committee Member Phil Bryant said that he was trying to get down to the labor costs involved. What does it actually cost to mail a notice out? There must be a threshold where at some point of saying if the individual owes $3.50, are we losing money sending out this notice.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano stated that in the Notice Elimination Report that he sent out, one of the major recommendations was to have management information in place. There aren't any cost accounting figures on notice and letters. There is no legislative type of requirement for this.

Committee Member Phil Bryant stated that to change the threshold on sending low dollar notices would involve a legislative change. SPOC Ann Gelineau said that is not a legislative mandate. Actually the Commissioner of the IRS and the Secretary of the Treasury can make that a policy decision because we did a small dollar effort about four (4) years ago. There is a systemic imbedded tolerance of $5.00. We have to send notice but we also tell them they don't need to make a payment. SB/SE is looking at this. SPOC Ann Gelineau will look for information on this and send it to TAP Program Analyst Sallie Chavez.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano said they are planning a Penalty and Interest Dynamic Project Team (DPT) in the spring. W & I is going to partner with SB/SE and the Office of Penalty and Interest. He is planning to do protocol testing to find out whether taxpayer want to receive the penalty and interest attachment, which is the whole explanation of the penalty and interest calculations attached to the notice, if the penalty and interest is a small amount. He stated there is no specific dollar amount. We may be spending more to print it and send it out and the taxpayer may not be interested in receiving all those extra pages.

SPOC Ann Gelineau said that before we go to testing the first group of collection notices we would like the penalty and interest stabilized so it really needs to be done soon. SPOC Representative asked her if she had a timeframe. SPOC Ann Gelineau said that the CP71 team took a stab at revising the penalty and interest explanation and really did a good job. The goal is to do usability testing on that design so it can be handed off to the penalty and interest DPT so they don't have to reinvent the wheel. She's not sure when that DPT will take place. We would want to make the changes at the same time as doing the collection notices. They don't want to do this piecemeal.

SPOC Representative said he doesn't think he will be able to do protocol testing if the DPT is going to start in the next two (2) months because he can't get it through OMB in that timeframe. There is an opportunity there to pickup on that issue.

SPOC Ann Gelineau said she doesn't see any timeframe for this. It can be done at anytime because it is legislative so it has to go to Congress to say we've done taxpayer polling and this is what we found out.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano said the committee has taxpayer expertise and creditability that a lot of people don't have and people will listen to that on issues like this. The penalty and interest is a major issue that is attached to millions of notices.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano stated that the Notice Elimination Phase 2 NPIIT is scheduled to start this summer. There are no firm plans yet. He is planning to use the group the same way as on the first phase. He said the Standardization has been funded and the first part is going to come out this summer. The group is already working with Bonnie Babcock and started to develop a relationship with her.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano asked Committee Member Robin Gausebeck if she decided what notices she wanted to review. Robin said that it was discussed at the face-to-face that it was important for us to look at notices that were going to come up for review so we could flow seamlessly through this whole process. Going through the DAT is a long process and will require several teams of us to work together. She doesn't want to think that it's just busy work.

SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano said that what's coming up is the CP500 series and the penalties and interest attachment. SPOC Ann Gelineau said don't just limit it to the CP500 series because we have the LP and LT notices. One of June's major projects is to review all of W & I products and doing scoring and norming so we can use that to help prioritize the next group. The scores will be used to figure out what we should be doing. She doesn't want this to be “busy work”. It is value and the committee needs to recognize that. She wants to make it more palatable for the group.

Committee Member Tony DiMartino asked Committee Member Robin Gausebeck if the teams had been set up to score these notices. Committee Member Gausebeck said they were working on guidelines as to how to evaluate and what things to look for. She sent that out to her subcommittee. She has not heard back from any of her subcommittee members. She asked the TAP Program Analyst to send an email to every committee member and find out who would be willing to serve on these teams. She would like 3 or 4 people to work through the evaluation process as we were taught at the last meeting.

Committee Member Tom Seuntjens said he thought the subcommittee of Committee Members Robin Gausebeck, John Hollingsworth, Jeana Warren and Eileen Shuman would be reviewing the notices. Committee Member Gausebeck said the purpose of the subcommittee was to oversee the process but the process of looking at the notices and going through the DAT was going to be everyone on the committee. She hopes everyone on the committee will volunteer to serve on a team. The subcommittee will manage to collect the notices to go out and collate the information and forward the response to SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano.

Committee Member Tom Seuntjens asked if we have something to review now in order to have people volunteering to review them. Committee Member Robin Gausebeck said SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano was talking about what notices do we want to focus our efforts on right now. The group needs to decide. Committee Member Seuntjens said it's too vague to be able to volunteer to be on a team. Do we need more explicit information before we know? Committee Member Gausebeck said we will have more when we get together and decide exactly what notices we're going to focus our efforts on. Anybody who volunteered to be on a team will get copies of notices and blank DAT forms. Then go through it, work with it yourself. Report back to the subcommittee. Tell the subcommittee if you have any problems.

Committee Member Tony DiMartino asked if we know what notices. SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano said the group stated they wanted to work on the notices that are actually going to be worked on in the near future and that would be the CP500 series, LT LP automated collection system notices and the penalty and interest attachment. He will let the committee know what's coming up when he finds out. There is also the prioritization list which is notices that have been prioritized that was in the DAT folder.

Committee Member Robin Gausebeck said we can start with those notices. SPOC Representative said there is a need for all of them but he would prefer they start with the CP500 series and penalties and interest attachment. Committee Member Gausebeck said she would like the subcommittee to get copies of these notices. SPOC Representative Cesarano said he will get together with Program Analyst Sallie Chavez to get that to the subcommittee. Committee Member Tom Seuntjens said he would like to have a sample before getting volunteers. Is there an immediate need for this to be done? SPOC Ann Gelineau said that on the CP500 series and the LT LP notices, the goal is to start the team working by April 19. Committee Member Seuntjens said that's not a few months. SPOC Gelineau said a decent draft will be tested in June.

Sub-Committee Report

Language Standardization
Committee Member Tom Seuntjens filled in for Subcommittee Chair Member Virginia Symonds. Subcommittee Chair Symonds sent out an email to Bonnie Babcock asking her to respond to about ten (10) items. Bonnie Babcock came back and said her team is working to meet the first set of deadlines and would be asking for the subcommittee to review it when it's ready.

DAT
Subcommittee Chair Member Robin Gausebeck stated that she thinks she has covered it in the previous portion of the meeting.

Referrals
Subcommittee Chair Member John Hollingsworth was no longer on the call. This will be held over until the next meeting.

NPIIT
There has been nothing done on this.

DPT
There is nothing on this yet.

Review of Action Items
TAP Program Analyst went through the Action Items from the previous meeting. The information SPOC Representative Jim Cesarano has sent is in the process of being mailed out. Committee Members should have it by next week.

Bonnie Babcock has not sent any information about the access database. This will be addressed when she gets the information to us.

The travel computations have been sent out to all committee members.

New Business
Committee Member George Sullivan does not see his name on the list of subcommittees. He knows he volunteered for one but can't remember which one. TAP Program Analyst Sallie Chavez will check on this.

Meeting Close
Committee Chair Skip Eshelman asked for any other comments. There were none. He said the next meeting is scheduled for April 28th.

Meeting was adjourned.

Action Items

TAP Program Analyst

• Send out email to members to get back choices for face-to-face meeting in August
• Access Database from Notice Standardization NPIIT
• Send Collection Notices to be scored
• Send Subcommittee List

SPOC Representatives

• Obtain CP 22 for Vice Chair Eileen Shuman

SPOC

• Obtain low dollar/tolerance information for Phil Bryant