Joint Committee Minutes

August 17, 2004

Members Present

• Mario Burgos, Efiling
• James Grimaldi, Area 1
• Gwen Handelman, EITC
• Cheyanna Jaffke, Area 7
• David Meyer, Area 2
• Paul Nagel, Schedule C Non-filers
• Tom Seuntjens, TAP Chair
• Teresa Smedley, Area 4
• Leonard Steinberg, Payroll Taxes
• Bruce Twomley, Multilingual
• Sherry Whah, Area 6
• Lillian Woo, Area 5

Members Absent

• Skip Eshelman, Notices
• Robert Meldman, Ad Hoc
• George Sullivan, Area 3

Staff Present

• Bernie Coston, DFO
• Steve Berkey, Program Analyst
• Tersheia Carter, Program Analyst
• Martha Curry, Program Analyst
• Inez DeJesus, Program Analyst
• Nancy Ferree, TAP Manager
• Marisa Knispel, Program Analyst
• Sandy McQuin, TAP Manager
• Judi Nicholas, TAP Manager
• Patti Robb, Note taker
• Barbara Toy, Program Analyst

Guests Present

• Paul Cinquemani, National Association Tax Professionals (NATP)
• Owen Oatley, TAP Member

Welcome / Announcements / Review Agenda
Tom Seuntjens welcomed all to call. A discussion of the agenda for the September face-to-face meeting was added to this call’s agenda.

Roll Call (Quorum is Nine)
Guests include Owen Oatley, TAP member from Area 3 and Paul Cinquemani from the National Association of Tax Professionals (NATP).

National Office Report
Bernie Coston thanked the Joint Committee members and all other panel members for their input into the TAP annual report. The reports have been published and staff completed distribution; contact your area program analyst if you haven’t received a copy. The complete report is also available on the TAP website.

The interview process went extremely well in the 13 different venues. About 185 persons were interviewed for the TAP vacancies. The results are compiled and the lists of potential members and alternates forward to Nina Olson and Treasury. Coston is scheduled to discuss the list with Olson on August 26. The scanned fingerprinting process for all candidates interviewed at IRS facilities is completed. The other interviewees were sent fingerprint cards which they need to bring to police station for completion. Tax checks are being done by the National Public liaison office and Coston will check on the status of tax checks when he returns to Washington. Coston anticipates all tax and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) checks will be completed timely unlike the first recruitment when the FBI name checks rather than the finger print checks delayed the selection process.
ACTION: Coston will check on the status of tax checks when he returns to Washington.

Face-to-face meetings and interviews along with the tax forums is stretching staff and members thin and Coston thanked all who have done this triple duty to get the work done. Members who have attended tax forums participated with the oversight boards and other focus groups.

Staff is working diligently on agenda and materials for the TAP annual meeting. The agenda includes a separate orientation period for new members. Coston believes the agenda for the meeting will provide the new people the information they need to do their job as TAP members, and give existing members more detailed training. Gwen Handelman asked what role committee chairs would have in organizing the issue and area committee meetings. Coston had not previously considered but would like to include chairs in the process and including the chairs will make the job easier for the incoming chairs. Handelman also asked if Coston was considering using professional facilitators. Coston replied that the problem with outside facilitators is they are not familiar with TAP and he is more comfortable with managers and the designated federal officials (DFOs). Seuntjens and Handelman agreed.

Review Assignments
Coston next addressed his action item for the Outsourcing Issue. Coston would like to delay this item until he has consulted with Olson on August 26. Coston has not assigned the other action item on reviewing the minutes of other IRS advisory groups.

Steve Berkey is working with publishing to produce the pocket-sized version of the media guide. The publishing staff designer put together a mock-up of the document, final changes were made, and the approval was given to publish. The media guide is a fold-up document with four panels and has printing on both sides. 5000 guides will be available for the national meeting in November. Originally the document was tips for communicators it is now combined with the talking points. The talking points snap off. Seuntjens asked if the document could be available for the September Joint Committee meeting.
ACTION: Berkey will have the media guide or a mock-up version available for the Joint Committee meeting in September.

Berkey is still gathering the success stories and did use the gathered information for an article for an internal Taxpayer Advocate Service (TAS) newsletter, TAS Talk. Berkey was considering using the format Area 4 developed for the “What’s on TAP?” project. Sandy McQuin reminded members that success stories did not necessarily have to be elevated issues but includes successes like being approached for input by the Oversight board and combining Area subcommittees with an issue committee to work the W-4 Form issue.

The operating guide for panel members subcommittee is meeting next Tuesday to review the documents staff has or will send and will then produce draft guide for the September face-to-face meeting. The subcommittee members are: Tersheia Carter, Cheyañna Jaffke, Lillian Woo, Tom Seuntjens, and Sandra Ramirez.

Leonard Steinberg mentioned that the American Institute for Certified Public Accountants (AICPA) has now taken up this outsourcing issue for discussion. Paul Cinquemani added that the AICPA had an exposure draft on outsourcing on its website.

There is some confusion on who is handling “What’s on TAP.” Staff had the action item to discuss if the “What’s on TAP” project should be taken nationwide. Ad Hoc had “What’s on TAP” as an item of discussion during its last meeting. It was Teresa Smedley’s recollection that Area 4 should withhold from sending out articles because there is already a distribution list in place and did not recall Ad Hoc having the assignment. Ad Hoc at the request of the national office is working on a system for gathering the articles and distributing them; it is not planning to take over the project. After more discussion it was decided this project is a great, low cost way to let people know about TAP. Area 4 should proceed with the distribution of the articles while Ad Hoc works towards developing a nation-wide program. Since Berkey is the Communications Liaison, Coston wants Berkey to work with Ad Hoc and Area 4 on this issue and review all articles before distribution. Smedley does not want to hinder the Ad Hoc committee in taking the project nation-wide but is anxious to get moving on the project because several Area 4 members have put a lot of effort into the project and she would like them to see the results of their hard work. Mario Burgos agrees that TAP should pursue both avenues at same time and added that in addition, he advises sharing the articles with the other members because members could distribute them in their local markets as a one time article rather than an ongoing project. Nancy Ferree stated that the Notice Committee recently wrote an article about their success and was there any reason this article couldn’t be used? There isn’t any reason but any article should be reviewed by Berkey before release.
ACTION: Toy will place the “What’s on TAP” issue on the September agenda for further discussion.
ACTION: Managers will send Berkey copies of any articles for review prior to release.

For Barbara Toy’s action item on drafting a letter for changing the name of the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) committee, Handelman stated that the Program Owner for the EITC Committee did have an objection to changing the committee name. The issue is therefore dropped.
ACTION: Toy will check TAP Speak, databases, and articles to ensure EITC is used in all places.

Handelman reported for George Sullivan, Chair, on Area 3’s decision on the “Message on Refund Check Envelope.” She reported that Area 3 reviewed the information on the envelopes used to mail refund checks, was satisfied with the information from Financial Management Services, and decided to drop the issue.
ACTION: Toy will close the Refund Envelope Issue in the Issue tracking database.

Toy had an action item to request an update on the “Just in Time” issue. This was done and while we do not have a final response, Denise S. Fayne, Director, Tax Forms and Publications Division, has requested a conference call with TAP to respond on the issues. Sandy McQuin is putting together a conference call with Denise Fayne and the Area Committee members who originated this issue and the other issues relating to Forms and Publications.
Sherry Whah will present the response to the On Hold for Toll Free to the Joint Committee for the September meeting and this assignment will be dropped.

All other completed assignments were dropped without comment.

Review / Approve Minutes
The July 20, 2004 minutes were approved without comment.
ACTION: Toy will finalize the July 20, 2004 Joint Committee minutes and post to the TAP website.

Agenda Items

• Discussion of Responses from IRS
  • TAP 03-011 Individual Taxpayer Identification Number
  • TAP 04-028 EFTPS Information Access Period
  • TAP 04-036 Form 656 OIC Revision
  • Various #s FreeFile Alliance
Jim Grimaldi mentioned that his committee has not met to discuss these issues. Toy reported that Lillian Woo had the same situation with Area 5 and suggested a change in procedure for putting discussion of responses on the Joint Committee agenda. From now on, the responses will be sent to the originating committee chair and staff. The item will be placed on the area committee agenda for the next meeting. After discussion of the issue has occurred at the area meeting, the chair will inform Toy who will place it on the agenda for the next Joint Committee meeting.
• September face-to-face Agenda
  Seuntjens suggested changes to the agenda.
  ACTION: Toy will update the agenda with the suggested changes and redistribute.
  ACTION: Chairs should submit suggestions for agenda topics to Toy.
  Seuntjens commented on the Area Recommendation Status Report and the number of issues in the “Pending Review by TAP” status. If the responses have already been discussed at the Area committee, the chair of the originating committee should inform Toy of the closing status or their intent to draft a response. If they have not been discussed, the items should be put on the next meeting’s agenda. If the committee has decided to respond back to the IRS, chairs should try to have the response to the Joint Committee for the September meeting.
  ACTION: Area Chairs should review their committee’s issues in the “Pending Review by TAP” status and report to Toy on the status prior to the September meeting.
• Outsourcing Issue postponed until September
• K-1 Schedules
  Owen Oatley presented the K-1 Schedule rewrite by Ed Hanna of Area 3 which was approved by Area 3 in New Orleans. Toy mentioned that the rewrite did not address the barrier raised at the September 2003 Joint Committee meeting regarding small business owners’ right to not disclosing information to Internal Revenue Service (IRS) until it is required. Seuntjens added that there are many worksheets and other tools used during tax preparation that are kept for your personal records but not provided to IRS and he also prefers to keep the information private if not necessary for IRS to have. Handelman was previously not aware that more than one person believed this was a barrier and would bring back to Area 3 for a discussion at their teleconference on Friday, August 20. Oatley said that the requirement benefits stockholders by helping them keep track of their basis. This change was made to reduce taxpayer burden but, inadvertently increased taxpayer burden if they would need to reconstruct their basis. It was suggested that not providing the information raised concerns of tax avoidance and tax evasion. Others felt it was reducing taxpayer burden rather than avoidance and requiring the information facilitates preparers more than taxpayers. There followed more discussion on which is more burdensome privacy or not having basis information. Teresa Smedley felt it should not be a burden to reconstruct basis because preparers still need to provide their clients with the balance sheet. The reduction in burden is not in the computations but in preparing additional information for the IRS. Whah stated it is an ongoing problem in determining basis but it isn’t clear how providing the information to the IRS will solve the problem. Paul Nagel added that providing the information is required for partnerships but not S-Corporations. Discussion followed on whether the proposal fit into TAP’s mission since it eases burden on practitioners rather than taxpayers. Seuntjens called for a count of who favored and who opposed elevating the issue; the results 6 yes; 5 opposed. Some members opposed without further discussion; topic moved to September agenda for further discussion.
  ACTION: Toy will add Schedule K-1 issue to September Agenda.
• Exit Interviews
  Topic was skipped; will be placed on September agenda.
  ACTION: Sandy McQuin will forward the emails concerning the exit interview topic to Coston and advice him that the Joint Committee would like to know his position on the exit interviews.
  ACTION: Toy will put the Exit Interview topic on the September agenda.
• Lien Processing
  Smedley reported that Area 4 was unable to get cooperation from owner on this topic and decided to write-up as a referral to get IRS’ attention. Area 4 is concerned that the centralization of lien processing may cause a burden to taxpayers if it is not done properly.
  Joint Committee agreed to elevate Lien processing by consensus.
  ACTION: Toy will prepare the Lien Processing issue for elevation and forward to W&I liaison.
• Identity Theft
  Lillian Woo presented Area 5’s proposal regarding Identity theft. Area 5 worked on various aspects of Identity Theft finding that some did not involve IRS or IRS could not resolve. However, while working on identity theft, Area 5 found out IRS has no uniform guidelines for documentation to prove identity theft nor any system or procedures in place for handling cases. IRS has established a task force to adopt uniform guidelines, policies, and procedures. This recommendation is that TAP input to the task force is important and Area 5 has volunteered to meet with the task force to provide input. Joint Committee agreed to elevate Identity Theft by consensus.
  ACTION: Toy will prepare the Identity Theft issue for elevation and forward to W&I liaison.
• Ad Hoc Monthly Committee Report
  Woo stated that the items on the report were not self selected but the National Office asked ad hoc to review. National Office is very concerned about continuity and a smooth transistion. Ad Hoc is preparing a proposal on suggestions for the transistion but Woo highlighted a few. Ad Hoc would like to see the TAP chair have more communication with the committee as a whole. Tom Seuntjens has concern for improving TAP liaisons with other advisory groups as well as communication with all members.
  
  Ad Hoc is also looking at a proposal to have all legislative and regulatory issues sent to the Ad Hoc committee for development and any proposals be sent directly to the National Office. Ad Hoc is trying to find a direction, the National Taxpayer Advocate assigned two issues initially to Ad hoc but then no more, and the Joint Committee has not assigned any issues to Ad Hoc.
  
  Handelman asked if there were any discussion of time commitment. David Meyer added that Area 2 had a discussion on time commitment and were considering proposing that more work be directed to the issue committees which would reduce each members’ TAP responsibilities. Seuntjens said that this issue is on the agenda for the September meeting and discussion is moved until then.

Closing
Paul Cinquemani from NATP stated his primary purpose for joining this call was to hear the discussion on outsourcing and whether TAP would consider it. He believes it is in the purview of the panel since it does affect disclosure of taxpayer’s information. Cinquemani added that most taxpayers are unaware that their personal information is outsourced and his belief is that any outsourcing not just to foreign countries should be disclosed

A brief discussion followed on if the ethic rule should cover any return information going outside of an employer/employee relationship. Or, if there was more of a distinction between independent contractors and their physical presence within the same location, within a chain, town, etc

Assignments:

• Berkey:
  1. Provide the media guide or a mock-up version available for the Joint Committee meeting in September.
  2. Develop fact sheet of success stories for panel members to use as part of their outreach and to insert into press releases and will update to keep stories fresh (05-07-2004 to 05-08-2004).
• Chairs:
  1. Submit suggestions for agenda topics to Toy
• Area Chairs:
  1. Area Chairs should review their committee’s issues in the “Pending Review by TAP” status and report to Toy on the status prior to the September meeting.
• Tersheia Carter, Jaffke, Woo, Seuntjens, and Ramirez:
  1. Produce a draft operating guidance document for committee chairs by the September Joint Committee (05-07-2004 to 05-08-2004)
• Coston:
1. Check on the status of tax checks on return to Washington
2. Consult with NTA on Outsourcing issue for discussion at September Joint Committee meeting.
• National Office Staff:
  1. Review the Outsourcing Proposal to determine if the issue is out of TAP’s scope for the discussion at the August Joint committee meeting.
  2. Review other IRS advisory group minutes for redundancy with TAP issues. National Office will serve as liaison with the advisory groups.
• Program Managers:
  1. Send Berkey copies of any articles for review prior to release
• Staff:
  1. Discuss What’s on TAP and make determination if project will be nation-wide effort or area by area
• Toy:
  1. Place the “What’s on TAP” issue on the September agenda for further discussion
  2. Check TAP Speak, databases, and articles to ensure EITC is used in all places
  3. Close the Refund Envelope Issue in the Issue tracking database
  4. Finalize the July 20, 2004 Joint Committee minutes and post to the TAP website
  5. Update the agenda with the suggested changes and redistribute
  6. Put the Exit Interview topic on the September agenda.
  7. Prepare the Lien Processing issue for elevation and forward to W&I liaison.
  8. Prepare the Identity Theft issue for elevation and forward to W&I liaison.