Joint Committee Minutes

July 20, 2004

Members Present

• Mario Burgos, Efiling
• Skip Eshelman, Notices
• James Grimaldi, Area 1
• Gwen Handelman, EITC
• Robert Meldman, Ad Hoc
• David Meyer, Area 2
• Paul Nagel, Schedule C Non-filers
• Tom Seuntjens, TAP Chair
• Teresa Smedley, Area 4
• Leonard Steinberg, Payroll Taxes
• George Sullivan, Area 3
• Bruce Twomley, Multilingual
• Sherry Whah, Area 6

Members Absent

• Cheyanna Jaffke, Area 7
• Lillian Woo, Area 5

Staff Present

• Judy Nicholas, DFO
• Tersheia Carter, National Office Analyst
• Mary O'Brien, Program Analyst
• Barbara Toy, Program Analyst

Guests Present

• Matthew Dull, University of Wisconsin-Madison, The Brookings Institution
• Paul Cinquemani, National Association for Tax Professionals

Welcome / Announcements / Review Agenda

The conference call is scheduled for one hour. George Sullivan’s and Gwen Handelman’s agenda topics will be moved to top of agenda since both need to leave the call to attend the Oversight Board meeting at the Tax Forum. Judi Nicholas is acting as Designated Federal Official for Bernie Coston who is interviewing for new members in Detroit.

Roll Call (Quorum is Nine)

Quorum Met

National Office Report

Nicholas has two issues to cover. The first is relative to committee meetings for month of October. Coston has requested that TAP have no meetings in October for two reasons: 1) staff will be busy preparing for the national meeting in November and 2) a number of panel members will not be available since their term ends on September 30, 2004. Tom Seuntjens agreed about area and issue committee meetings but would like brief Joint Committee meeting to review annual meeting plans and issues developed during September. In addition, the chairs’ terms have been extended to include the national meeting. Nicholas agreed that a brief meeting of the Joint Committee should not cause a problem. George Sullivan stated he was unaware that chairs, which are not staying for a third year, were invited to the annual meeting and made other plans. The vice chair will present annual report for Area 3.

Seuntjens reconfirmed that the Joint Committee will have a short meeting in October and the Joint Committee members should put the November 4, 5, and 6 meeting on their calendar. Seuntjens then asked if any chairs had objection to not having an October meeting and none did. Nicholas raised the issue of how the message about no October meetings would be communicated to all panel members and it was agreed that staff would notify all members.
ACTION: Toy will prepare an email for distribution to all members to inform them that with the exception of the Joint Committee, no committee meetings will be held during October. Also, the email will solicit comments from all panel members on topics of discussion at the annual meeting. In addition, the email will notify the members extending their terms of the date and location of the annual meeting. Toy will send the draft email to Nicholas for approval and distribute by the end of the week.

Based on comments from panel members, Nicholas sensed that some members are not aware of the dates and location of the annual meeting. It was agreed to amend the first action item to include notifying all members of the date and location of the annual meeting.

Review of Assignments

All completed assignments were dropped as reflected in the assignment section. The items mentioned below were discussed or amended as indicated.

The first action item for all Joint Committee members to forward suggestions for topics of discussion during the November Annual Meeting to Nicholas was dropped from “Assignments.” But, after discussion, it was agreed to add the request to the email in the first action item for Barbara Toy. Steve Berkey’s action items will be carried over since he was not available for call and Nicholas agreed to provide information on the assignments if Berkey not available for the August meeting.

A draft of the exit interview form was sent to the Joint Committee members along with Lillian Woo’s proposal for changing the form. Discussion of the exit interview will be place on the August agenda and then finalizing the form will be left to Coston.
ACTION: Toy will place discussion of the exit interview form on the August Joint Committee meeting agenda.

Program Managers had the assignment of informing analysts to start tracking their issue committee’s recommendations and perform any necessary follow-up with the program owners. This is an ongoing assignment and will be dropped from the list of assignments. However, Seuntjens emphasized the importance of the tracking and of ensuring that all recommendations either oral or written be well documented for inclusion in the annual report. The next assignment for program managers is to inform analysts to ensure a copy of or summary of any written or oral responses to issues elevated through the Joint Committee be sent to Toy. This assignment is also ongoing but will be dropped from the list.

Patti Robb had the assignment of preparing the TAP Annual Report for publishing. This assignment has been completed and delivery is expected July 26. The action item has been amended to distribution of the annual report.
ACTION: Staff will distribute the TAP annual report to all members, all Area and Local Taxpayer Advocates and all others.

Toy had the assignment of preparing the Message on Refund Check Envelope for elevation. While trying to locate the program owner, Toy found out that the message on the envelope was outdated and the Regional Finance Center was informed to stop using the old envelope stamp and start using the current one. The current stamp has a message from the Department of Agriculture. It was also discovered that the messages stamped on all envelopes for Treasury checks are supplied by the General Service Administration and not by the individual agencies.
ACTION: Toy will forward the information concerning the message on Treasury check envelopes to Sullivan for review.
ACTION: Sullivan will bring the information to Area 3 for discussion and report back to Joint Committee.

Review / Approve Minutes

Handelman had some changes in wording to suggest regarding the change in mane of the Earned Income Tax Credit Issue Committee and communication between TAP and Internal Revenue Service Advisory Committee (IRSAC) and agreed to forward to Toy by end of the week. Handelman stated the changes were not substantial and the Joint Committee approved the minutes with Handelman’s changes.
ACTION: Handelman will forward changes regarding the name change in the June Joint Committee Minutes to Toy by end of week.
ACTION: Toy will make changes supplied by Handelman, finalize, and redistribute the June Joint Committee Minutes.

Monthly Committee Reports Action Items

• Provide guidance re format of annual assessment

It was Handelman’s understanding that the self-assessment form would be finalized at this meeting. Seuntjens replied that was his objective also and should be approved later this meeting. The self-assessment forms were mailed to all chairs, but Handelman did not receive the package because her address change was not recorded.
ACTION: Toy will update Handelman’s address and remail meeting materials.

• Change name of Earned Income Tax Credit Committee (EITC) to Earned Income Credit (EIC) Committee

Handelman stated that the EITC Committee has already recommended the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) consistently use one term or the other and that the committee prefers EIC because the use of the word “tax” implies that a person has to owe tax to get the credit. Handelman has talked to the program owners regarding the name change. The program owner acknowledges the confusion caused by the use of the two terms but stated that past talk about changing the name has caused controversy. Coston took the position that since the focus of the committee is directed by the program owner, the name change should go through the program owner. Handelman proposed that Joint Committee change the name but give the program owner an opportunity to object. Nicholas stated that as long as the name change was confined to the committee and the program owner has a chance to object, the Joint Committee should proceed if the remainder of the committee agreed. Seuntjens asked if remaining chairs had an opinion on the name change. The Joint Committee agreed to endorse the name change for the committee.
ACTION: Toy will draft letter for Joint Committee endorsing the committee name change to EIC and also ensure all references to EITC are changed to EIC.

• Outsourcing Tax Preparation

Sullivan mentioned that Area 3 approved this proposal at their last face-to-face meeting and that one member, not in attendance, objected and prepared a minority report. A survey of chairs indicated that not all chairs received the report. Sullivan explained that Area 3 proposes that IRS require tax practitioners to inform taxpayers if confidential tax return information may be outsourced to a third party outside the United States. This allows taxpayer clients to decide whether to allow that information to be sent to a foreign country. Handelman clarified that the proposal recommended amending to two sets of regulations: regulations regarding preparer penalties for unauthorized disclosure of taxpayer return information and regulations establishing standards of practice for tax practitioners. Owen Oatley added that it is his understanding that Code Section 7216 is now being reviewed and this is good timing for the proposal.

Bob Meldman and Leonard Steinberg raised the issue whether or not proposal is in scope of TAP. Handelman replied that Nancy Ferree had also raised this issue and that TAP had already set precedent for comment on proposed regulations, and the Ad Hoc committee worked on regulation of unenrolled preparers. Additionally, taxpayers are forced into arms of paid preparers since free tax preparation is not readily available for all. Therefore, the issue does deal with customer service and satisfaction making it within scope of TAP. Meldman replied that the difference with regulation on unenrolled preparers is that the issue did not go to IRS but to the National Taxpayer Advocate because it was considered legislative. David Meyer also thought the issue was getting close to line of being legislative and would require a legislative regulatory change. Handelman replied that Commissioner Everson said the regulations were currently under review and that’s why this issue is timely and appropriate. More discussion followed on whether the issue was interpretive or legislative and Meldman suggested sending the issue to Coston for determination. Handelman preferred including Coston in the discussion but to protect independence of panel, the decision should be made by committee. Meyers suggested shelving the issue until the IRS asks for input on proposed regulations. However, without knowing when this would happen, others felt it was not necessary. Mario Burgos asked what harm would be done if the proposal was submitted and IRS replied that it was legislative. Decision was made to postpone discussion until August meeting and then discussion turned to merit of proposal. Steinberg agrees with Sharon Lassar that the issue is outside of TAP’s mission and does not address either IRS service or customer satisfaction and if TAP is addressing outsourcing, why not all outsourcing? Teresa Smedley added that she had learned of this issue and was outraged by the implications. However, if indeed this is a legislative issue, we should not address it as TAP. The Area 4 Committee has wanted to address other issues which would require legislative change,) but did not because it is not in TAP’s charter to do so. Committee decided to shelve the issue until the August meeting which allows all members the time to review the issue and the minority report and staff time to prepare input on whether the issue is outside of TAP scope. Meyer suggested appending the referral with code section 7216 and the regulations.
ACTION: Toy will place the Outsourcing of tax returns on the August agenda; resend the referral and minority report and append with IRC section 7216 and Reg. 301.17. Toy will also inform Coston about the National Office action item.
ACTION: National Office will review the Outsourcing Proposal to determine if the issue is out of TAP’s scope and provide the Joint Committee an explanation of that position at the August Joint committee meeting.

• Annual Self Assessment Form

Seuntjens used the input from previous Joint Committee meeting and staff to develop two separate assessment forms, one for area committees and one for issue committees. The area and issue committees’ focus is different enough for two forms. Seuntjens placed outreach first on the area committee form since it was not adequately addressed in the last annual report. Seuntjens asked the chairs to work with the program managers to have complete list of outreach activities for the next report. Seuntjens also suggested chairs discuss the self-assessment form at their next meeting and consider forming a subcommittee to take onus off chair. The self-assessment form has two sections: the first part will be used to prepare annual report and the second is information only. Seuntjens asked chairs to keep it in mind that issue committee accomplishments should include both oral and written accomplishments and to work with staff to have complete information.

Seuntjens asked for comments on forms. Committee approved the self-assessment form with agreement to incorporate non-present chairs’ comments if minor.

• What’s on TAP

Smedley asked for clarification on what exactly Joint Committee needed and added that Coston had mentioned making this a nation-wide project. Nicholas had originally envisioned the program as a model for other areas but nation-wide implementation makes more sense but added that staff has not had an opportunity to discuss the issue. Seuntjens prefers nation-wide but this would take more of staff’s time. Staff should discuss from staff’s perspective with understanding that members will be participating but if onus falls on panel it will be more easily done area by area. Smedley stated that Area 4 would be delighted with expansion and assistance from national office is ideal. Area 4 had talked about disseminating but put on hold until guidance was received from Joint Committee. Jim Grimaldi asked for clarification on where the articles would be sent and Smedley replied that the articles are aimed at taxpayers not practitioners.
ACTION: Staff will discuss What’s on TAP and make determination if project will be nation-wide effort or area by area.

Closing

Seuntjens next provided time for the guests to ask questions or present their issues.

Paul Cinquemani from the National Association for Tax Professionals government relations area and is specifically interested to know objectivity of group in how issues are acted upon from taxpayers view as opposed to tax practitioners when there are practitioners on Joint Committee. He is interested in the outsourcing and disclosure issue and believes it should be viewed as representing taxpayers’ interest.

Matthew Dull, University of Wisconsin-Madison, The Brookings Institution is interested in EITC and its broad impact on taxpayers.

Smedley remarked that Area 4 is still waiting for a response on their “Just in Time” proposal and that a response was promised in June.
ACTION: Toy will request an update on the “Just in Time” final response prior to the Area 4 face-to-face meeting.

Seuntjens reminded chairs that August 16 is the next Joint Committee teleconference.

Assignments:
Berkey:

1. Work with publishing to produce pocket-sized versions of the Media Guide and the Talking Points (05-07-2004 to 05-08-2004).
2. Develop fact sheet of success stories for panel members to use as part of their outreach and to insert into press releases and will update to keep stories fresh (05-07-2004 to 05-08-2004).

Handelman:

1. Forward changes regarding the EITC committee name change in the June Joint Committee Minutes to Toy by end of week.

Tersheia Carter, Jaffke, Woo, Seuntjens, and Ramirez:

1. Produce a draft operating guidance document for committee chairs by the September Joint Committee (05-07-2004 to 05-08-2004)...

National Office Staff:

1. Review the Outsourcing Proposal to determine if the issue is out of TAP’s scope in preparation for the discussion at the August Joint committee meeting.
2. Review other IRS advisory group minutes for redundancy with TAP issues. National Office will serve as liaison with the advisory groups.

Robb:

1. Annual Report to Publishing for printing and binding.

Staff:

1. Distribute the TAP annual report to all members, all Area and Local Taxpayer Advocates and all others.
2. Discuss What’s on TAP and make determination if project will be nation-wide effort or area by area.

Sullivan:

1. Bring the information regarding the message on the back of refund check envelopes to Area 3 for discussion and report back to Joint Committee.
2. Bring the “Expanding Check the Box Authorization” referral back to Area 3 for reconsideration of the issues discussed at the Joint Committee meeting.
3. Work with the authors of the Schedule K-1 proposal and George Sullivan to rewrite it, and present again to the Joint Committee (03/16/2004).

Toy:

1. Prepare an email for distribution to all members to inform them that with the exception of the Joint Committee, no committee meetings will be held during October. Also, the email will solicit comments from all panel members on topics of discussion at the annual meeting in addition, the email will notify the members extending their terms of the date and location of the annual meeting. Toy will send the draft email to Nicholas for approval and distribute by the end of the week.
2. Place discussion of the exit interview form on the August Joint Committee meeting agenda.
3. Forward the information concerning the message on Treasury check envelopes to Sullivan for review.
4. Make changes supplied by Handelman, finalize, and redistribute the June Joint Committee Minutes.
5. Update Handelman’s address and remail meeting materials.
6. Draft letter for Joint Committee endorsing the committee name change to EIC and also ensure all references to EITC are changed to EIC.
7. Place the Outsourcing of tax returns on the August agenda; resend the referral and minority report and append with IRC section 7216 and Reg. 301.17. Toy will also inform Coston about the National Office action item.
8. Request an update on the “Just in Time” final response prior to the Area 4 face-to-face meeting.
9. Place discussion of the exit interview form on the August Joint Committee meeting agenda
10. Add agenda item to next face-to-face on chair’s role for the transition: should the chairs continue for the one-year term, should they be mentors? (05 07 2004 05 08 2004).

Whah:

1. Discuss the On Hold for Toll Free and the Provider Identification Number response and report back to Barbara Toy on its status. Consolidate the response for Meyer and Sullivan on the On Hold for Toll Free issue.