Joint Committee Teleconference Minutes

April 22, 2003

Members Present:

• Mary Balmer, Area 2
• Phil Bryant, Notices
• Mario Burgos, E-filing
• Justin Doucette, Area 6
• Walter Fish, Area 1
• Gwen Handelman, Earned Income Tax Credit
• Ed Hanna, Area 3
• Sharon Lassar, Multilingual
• Chris Lowe, Ad Hoc
• Robert Meldman, Area 4
• Paul Nagel, Schedule C Non-filers
• Tom Seuntjens, TAP Chair
• Leonard Steinberg, Payroll Taxes
• Barbara Toy, Acting Designated Federal Official
• Lillian Woo, Area 5

Others in attendance:

• Jim Abraham, Area 4 Member
• Tersheia Carter, National Office Program Analyst
• Martha Curry, National Office Program Analyst
• Patti Robb, Note Taker

Members Not in attendance:

• Charles Taylor, Area 7
• Deryle Temple, Designated Federal Official

Quorum: 15 members present, quorum of 9 met

Welcome/Announcements/Review Agenda
Thanks for joining. Face to face does accommodate communications. Issues starting to come to Joint Committee and will be addressed at face to face.

Review/Approve Minutes
Minor modifications suggested. Accepted as modified. Do not need to send out again.

ACTION: Toy will make modifications as stated and finalize minutes.

Agenda Items:

Issue Matrix
Barbara Toy indicated the Active Issues and Subcommittees were taken directly from the Monthly Committee Reports. The primary reason for the matrix is to find duplication. (Note from Toy: I tried to indicate duplication of issues by shading the box with the X for the committee taking the lead on the issue. If there is more than one box shaded, its because it was not made clear who had lead.) Balmer questioned if the report out of systemic advocacy would replace this matrix. Tom Seuntjens' concern is the report would be lengthy and not reflective of the issues the committees were working. The problem is that the Systemic Advocacy system is set to record all issues not necessarily active issues or subcommittees. Abraham believes the matrix is beneficial for knowing if other regions support the idea, what level of priority, and how many other areas interested in same issue. Gwen Handelman was under the impression the primary purpose was to note duplication. As a tool, I don't think it is really doing it because of the free filing. Handelman also suggested separating subcommittees and issues because the name of the subcommittee doesn't always indicate its purpose. Seuntjens stated the intent is to look for duplication. This will have to be updated and streamlined as we go along. The purpose in reading the Monthly Committee Report (MCR) is; 1) it's a place to look for duplication, however if it's not titled correctly, we will not pick up, and 2) some duplication is okay, but chairs need to communicate.

ACTION: Chairs should ensure all issues are listed and send corrections and comments to Toy. Toy will modify matrix to make name of subcommittees more descriptive.

Issue Flow document on hold until the May meeting.

Discuss/Approve Replies to Areas
Check Box. Preliminary research indicates the Check Box Third Party Authorization was not perceived as a power of attorney but pertained to information on a return the third party had knowledge of and/or prepared. Toy is trying to locate the report of the Third Party Authorization Study to get clear picture of rationale behind the initiative. Hope to get the report so the issue can be finalized at the May meeting.

Limitations on Income Tax Deductions on Capital Losses. As Handelman stated, the memo is phrased not for reasons to reject but to request a discussion of issues not considered in the original document. Meldman started a discussion on whether the Joint Committee should be evaluating the issue on whether it is equitable or not equitable and/or if other issues should be raised. Handelman stated if we evaluate on equity, we should also consider the potential for manipulation so people pay the appropriate tax rate. She added that it seems we shouldn't make recommendations without considering why the provisions were originally put in place and respond as to why we're not considering that reason. Meldman wondered if research should be done to determine the original intent and Handelman responded that TAP was meant to be panel of citizens who should not be expected to behave as tax scholars but there are common sense concerns we should raise. Seuntjens stated that the Joint Committee was not in a position to discuss this issue now and it would be discussed at the May meeting to determine if it goes forward. He added that when the issue goes forward it should be understood and accepted as complete. Is it complete enough for us to make decision? Now, the decision is, is this response ready to be sent to Area 4? At this time, Ed Hanna mentioned that a new recommendation on this issue was raised by Area 6. Doucette stated Area 6 adopted because we thought Area 4 was not working. Doucette will ask Abraham and Jim Banks (Area 6) to consolidate this into one issue and work together to bring it to the May meeting. Balmer stated that this issue should have been placed on hold since it is legislative. Seuntjens replied that this was true and TAP should not research this extensively until we get Nina Olson's recommendations on legislative issues.

ACTION: Toy will send response to Area 4 with copies to Area 6.

Review May meeting agenda
Last meeting, there were comments about the number of speakers on Friday. These are not just persons speaking at you; there will be some interaction. As suggested, administrative topics were grouped together. On Day 2, we will also talk about midyear assessment report and create a format for all committees to use for the final report. Most of Day 2 will be presenting the issues, prioritizing, and finding a home for the issues. Seuntjens reminded chairs to bring their issues to the May meeting. Leonard Steinberg asked when the agenda would be final. Seuntjens replied that he was only referring to the agenda format and that far as materials on issues and mid year report that could be finalized next week. Hanna suggested streamlining the meeting by having sign up sheet rather than roll call. But, it was decided that the introduction was important so members could get to know each other.

Monthly Committee Reports Action Items

Copies of Committee work product to NTA & TAP Director. Handelman reported that a low-income taxpayer advocate got a copy of their report to the program owner-it is not sure if it was from a member of the EITC committee or not. Officially, the memo was sent to program owners not to the National Taxpayer Advocate (NTA) or TAP Director. Subsequently, NTA indicated that she would like copies of reports sent to the program owners. This raised two issues: 1) this is the first time we had any idea that our work product was to go to anyone other than program owners, and 2) if that is to be the routine, it should be indicated on the flow chart. Seuntjens stated that it should be staff responsibility to get this done. This will be reflected on flowchart.

ACTION: Toy add step to Issue Committee flowchart to indicate work papers are to be forwarded to Director and NTA.

Confidentiality issues raised. Handelman explained the second issue that arose from this incident. None of our work product is or should be confidential because meetings are open to the public. The public wouldn't necessarily be provided a hard copy of the memo or report, but the substance of it would be available to the public. If we are to keep information confidential, Handelman needs to know because members are asking to make work products available to media. Mario Burgos reminded committee that at Orientation, we were told we could go ahead and issue any sort of press release at any time. Robert Meldman said any committee information made public has to be the view of the committee, not the individual's own perspective. Woo stated that area 5 had instances where visitors requested copies of all work products before conference calls or meetings. Area 5's interpretation of FACA is that unless our committee has voted on it, we do not need to send the papers. After a decision has been made, the papers must be made public. Handelman stated the confidentiality issue is touchier for issue committees because area committees are more open and responsive to public. Issue committees get information from and provide feedback to program owners, and there are more concerns about sharing information when anything that goes to the committee has to be made public. Seuntjens stated Issue committees need guidance on IRS parameters for sharing information. Confidentiality issues should be identified and discussed with the program owner within the committee because it varies for each committee. Steinberg stated his committee has not put out any documentation; feedback is oral and the guidelines given to us at orientation is to come out with a periodic press release, letting public know what we are working on. Handelman added that the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) might be the only Issue Committee with confidentiality issues. The pre-certification initiative for EITC claimants is reasonably controversial and is in the development stage. However, the issue may arise in other committees--at some point, Ad Hoc may be preparing report on sensitive information concerning licensing of practitioners. Steinberg suggested that we add this topic to the program owner discussion at the face-to-face meeting.

A discussion about adding issue committee work products to the to the monthly committee reports followed and it was decided that it would be valuable

ACTION: Chairs should add work products to Monthly Committee Report and Toy will add note to attach monthly work.

Consideration of the Meeting Satisfaction Survey. Burgos attached a copy of the Satisfaction Survey the Efiling Issue Committee is using. The committee asked Burgos to share with Joint Committee so all chairs could consider using the survey form. The Efile committee strongly suggests others adapt it. Hanna thought it a good idea but Handelman stated she had sent her committee a form earlier and although it wasn't quite as elegant, they were not receptive. The use of the form for all committees will be optional and the Joint Committee would like to thank efile for their good work.

ACTION: Toy will send out form as separate document to all chairs.

Recommendation for inclusion of committee members if issue committees are to be reframed. Burgos recommends at least the chairs of issue committees be included in the discussion of and decision on forming new issue committees. Seuntjens would like feedback from the other chairs on this recommendation. TAP must understand the issue committees and what they are about before the October meeting so members can choose an issue that is better suited to them. They should also have an opportunity to comment on the choices before they are finalized.

ACTION: Toy will initiate email discussion of including TAP representation In Issue Committee Decision

Request that Joint Committee recommend to TA that all forms are e-enabled to comply with the mandate from Congress. Burgos feels with Efiling it is obvious that IRS has the feedback that taxpayers and practioners would use efile more if more forms were available. But, even if IRS knows they need to make all forms available to reach their goal of 80%, IRS seems comfortable with the number of forms offered. Seuntjens requested Burgos submit a formal write up for consideration in May. Handelman suggested area 5 work with e-filing so both W & I and SBSE were represented. Walter Fish added that any time explanatory documents such as describing stock split options are required to be attached, you couldn't e-file the return. Seuntjens suggested all non-standard forms be attached to signature form. Sharon Lassar added that with the use of the Personal Identification Number (PIN), the signature form is no longer required and added that congress' goal of 80% e filed is unrealistic, and who should be the ones to tell Congress it is no longer practicable.

ACTION: Burgos working with Woo should submit a formal write up for consideration of Efiling Recommendations in May.

Investigate whether it is too much of a burden for panel members to serve on both an Area and Issue Committee. Mary Balmer asked if a TAP member finds it is too burdensome, could they ask to be relieved of those responsibilities? Balmer added that she understood we could not relieve them of the area responsibility, because we need representation but maybe issue committee responsibility. Seuntjens replied that if individual is exceeding the agreed amount of volunteer hours and it will not put too much burden on the remainder of the members on the committee, the chair could consider it. The chair needs to manage the committee. Fish added that with he put in 250 hours in the Area and Joint Committee alone, and could not be active in the Issue subcommittee. Chairs of the individual committees should manage this within the committee but if there is a considerable amount of this happening, we will need to address as the Joint Committee. Handelman stated she would still like the Joint Committee, at some point, to address whether each person should have a dual assignment because we have already had some persons resign because topics discussed in the Area committee were too technical. Seuntjens agreed that there wasn't always a good match with experiences on issue committees. Phil Bryant also added that being chair is also overwhelming--in long run we are going to burn everyone out. This subject is part of the discussion on Saturday morning. Meldman would also like to add a discussion on what unexcused absence means to the discussion.

Suggestions for streamlining record keeping. Hanna stated this issue was ready for consideration next week and added that the IRS telephone problem is pervasive and not just on the 1040 number. Their committee is visiting the Atlanta telephone center in May and we will provide a very thorough report on telephone service after that point.

ACTION: Toy will bring hard copies of action items on Monthly Committee Reports to May meeting.

Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). Lillian Woo stated Area 5 noticed NTA did not include in last annual report to congress. The Area 5 subcommittee is tracking bills concerning AMT in congress and will not take a position on specific bills but track them and make recommendations for next annual report.

Suggestions for improving e filing. This issue will be discussed at May meeting.

Capital Gain Loss Carryover. Doucette addressed earlier and issue will refine for May.

Identification Number for Child Care Providers. Area 6's concerns are privacy and identify theft.

Hold Music. A taxpayer suggestion is what Area 6 is asking committee to consider next week. Steinberg suggested IRS provide a list of other toll free numbers and their purpose during the hold times so if they had the wrong number they could call the correct one. Doucette asked if this type of brainstorming is more appropriate at Joint Committee or Area level. Seuntjens replied that it should usually be at area level or left to IRS.

ACTION: Toy will contact Deryle Temple about action items from March Minutes.

Although chairs are preparing mid-year assessments, monthly committee reports are still due May 8.

Assignments

All

• Ensure all your issues are listed in Issue Matrix and send corrections and comments to Toy

Issue Committee Chairs

• Add work products to Monthly Committee Report and Toy will add note to attach monthly work

Burgos and Woo

• Burgos working with Woo should submit a formal write up for consideration of Efiling Recommendations in May.

Toy

• Make modifications as stated and finalize 03/18/2003 minutes
• Send response on Capital Loss Deduction Limitations to Area 4 with copies to Area 6
• Modify matrix to make name of subcommittees more descriptive.
• Add step to Issue Committee flowchart to indicate work papers are to be forwarded to Director and NTA
• Add note to attach monthly work products to Monthly Committee Reports
• Send out meeting satisfaction form as separate document to all chairs.
• Initiate email discussion of including TAP representation In Issue Committee Decision
• Bring hard copies of action items on Monthly Committee Reports to May meeting.
• Contact Deryle Temple about action items from March Minutes