Area 5 Committee Meeting Minutes

May 22-23, 2006
Face-to-Face Meeting
55 West 5th Street, St Paul, MN

Designated Federal Official:

• Marian Adams, Local Taxpayer Advocate

Committee Members Present

• Sandra Bland, Bemidji, MN
• Elizabeth Colvin, Austin, TX
• Howard Guthmann, St. Paul, MN
• Steve Landauer, Davenport, IA
• Ralph Rivera, Garland, TX
• Lee Stieger, Leavenworth, KS
• Mary Suther, Dallas, TX
• Warren Wong, Rochester, MN

Committee Members Absent

• Bob Meyers, Omaha, NE
• Richard Rousseau, Killeen, TX

TAP Staff

• Sandy McQuin, TAP Manager
• Mary Ann Delzer, Program Analyst
• Patti Robb, Secretary

Visitors:

• Bernie Coston, TAP Director

Monday, May 22, 2006

Welcome/ Announcements/ Introductions
Ralph Rivera welcomed everyone. He thanked Howard Guthmann for making his conference room available for this meeting. As you are aware, Clifford McKenzie stepped down as chair due to health problems, and as vice-chair, I assumed the chair responsibility. We will need to elect a vice-chair today.

Directors Comments--Coston
Where are we going in TAP? In the course of time we have evolved. Just three years ago we were struggling with notoriety in the IRS organization. We would go to IRS and they would basically ignore us. It has changed dramatically in the past year. The improved interest is based on the quality of the recommendations going forward and the IRS now sees TAP as very credible. The annual reports have improved in quality too. We have only just begun and there is always an opportunity for improvement.

It is important that you know your roles and responsibilities as members. You had one of the most successful town hall meetings so far this year. Landauer did a fantastic job. He has shown a great amount of passion in what he has done with TAP. His passion for IRS partnering with the YMCA has taken off. It has a long way to go but it is in motions. This initiative was Landauer’s passion. He managed to get to the right people. He was tenacious. You as TAP members often see things the IRS does not see. National Taxpayer Advocate (NTA) was very happy about the town hall meetings and they are going to continue. Because of some of the things Landauer did, it was determined that town hall meetings must be held in a city where a TAP member lives. Your role as a member is very important and the way to learn about TAP is to get engaged in the issues. You bring so much experience and knowledge to the table. It is imperative that you need to take on the role of leadership when necessary. We don’t want you to sit on the sidelines. You need to jump right in and rise to the occasion.

Landauer questioned the amount of the annual budget for TAP. Coston shared the TAP budget has been pretty flat, at about 1.2 million dollars. That is travel and administrative support. The actual travel amount is $525,000 and that covers everyone’s travel, TAP members and staff. I think we do a good job with what we have. The lions share is taken up by the annual meeting. Then each Area and Issue committee has a face-to-face meeting. Each meeting runs at a minimum of about $12,000 per meeting. We would like to be able to have more face-to-face meetings for each committee, but the budget does not permit that right now. I have encouraged the committees to add a half day to each meeting to give you more time together. Will also continue to be in dialog about increasing the budget for TAP.

Landauer suggested eliminating the issue committees and each area committee should meet twice. Coston stated some of the issue committees are really gaining momentum and have a tremendous amount of support from the IRS. They really want TAP’s input. The issue committees are extremely viable. Most of them feel they could use another face-to-face meeting each year. I will try to see if we can get more money allotted in the future. Commissioner Rossotti’s focus was customer service. Commissioner Everson’s focus is compliance.

Landauer stated his concern was accountability. If TAP can spend 3 million a year, we need to show something for it. Coston reminded the group that TAP has been a fledgling organization. This year during recruitment, we got over 900 applications for 28 slots. We are more recognized now. I know the budget is the number one issue on everyone’s mind. McQuin stated last year was unique because Area 5 had so many new members. This year at the annual meeting the face –to-face you have will be more like a regular face-to-face. You should be able to accomplish much more because you have so many returning members.

Coston wants the staff to work on this so everything transitions smoothly. There has been a gap between TAP member effectiveness between September and December. That should not happen this year. I want you to continue to have meetings during these months – right up to the annual meeting. You should not have to start from scratch. You will have a strong foundation already. Already have dialog with the organization.

Stieger commented that he did not get the handbook until 30-45 days after the meeting. It is a pretty good handbook and would have been better to get it before the annual meeting so it could be reviewed before the meeting. Once someone is notified they are a member, the information should be sent out at that time. The handbook was pretty easily understandable as far as committee responsibilities. McQuin answered that it was written by panel members and having it sent early is an excellent idea.

Guthmann thinks NTA and Commissioner should spend more (unlimited) time with the panel members at the annual meeting. They should be available for a whole day. Coston stated that is ironic because the feedback from the whole panel was they wanted more time for committee meetings and not so much time at the plenary. Coston will mention to Nina that they would like her to spend a half day with us. Guthmann reminded all that TAP members are volunteers and they should be able to adjust their schedules to spend time with us. McQuin reminded that the IRS has several advisory committees. TAP is the only one who actually works with the taxpayers.

Landauer asked for an update on the elevated CPE issues. McQuin said Chris Lee has this issue and is currently working on a response.

ACTION: McQuin will follow up on the status of the response to the elevated CPE issue.

Election of Vice-Chair
Stieger volunteered to serve as the new Area 5 Vice-Chair. Coston applauded Rivera for stepping right up into the Chair position once McKenzie resigned. Rivera welcomed Lee as the new vice-chair.

Issue Discussion

• Training for Forms/Pubs Employees
  Landauer explained that the issue is whoever is writing these things are not properly trained to write. This area is comprised of attorneys, accountants, and support staff and no one is trained to write properly. Denise Fayne said they have four trained writers, but they keep quitting or moving on. This is a skill set and people should be trained properly to write technical notices. There is an AP Stylebook, but the IRS does not use it. The big thing is these are written for taxpayers, not lawyers.

  Suther stated that the Notice area is grappling with the same issue. The principles will be the same for notices and for publications. Stieger said they are updating notices and they are trying to do it from a blank page up. They are using the TAP Notice Committee as a sounding board. They come up with a draft and are looking to us to review it. We are asking the same questions on the policy as to who is writing them. Landauer has a conference call today with a person at John Deere to see how they handle this issue. Stieger agreed that TAP needs to push this that IRS improves communications with the public so it is readable. Landauer, Stieger, and Bland will be on the call with the representative of John Deere.

• POA – Howard Guthmann
  In 2004 TAP wrote to IRS and still has not received a response. McQuin said we got a response last week and she brought a copy of the response. Guthmann feels very strongly about this issue and wants to elevate a new recommendation. We really need to do something about the checkbox on the returns. Guthmann feels the check box should be good as long as the return is open and the designation stays the same until the taxpayer actually makes a change. The IRS also limits the issues you can speak about on this return. And the IRS is not consistent in following the guidelines as far as the checkbox is concerned.

• Voice Mail on Toll Free – Howard Guthmann
  Guthmann spoke to the Director of the Joint Operations Center (JOC) at the Atlanta Processing Center about their telephone system. Most issues received by the LTAs are a result of the lack of service from the IRS. When you call the IRS, your call can get routed to anywhere in the United States. And if you need to call back, you never get to speak to the same assistor.

  McQuin explained the calls get routed to the next available assistor. The JOC Director explained that IRS would not even consider putting on voice mail, but they are considering several things to reduce the waiting time. There are eleven toll-free issues being worked on by other committees. Delzer stated these kind of changes involve budget issues. IRS is looking at 1) caller authentication, and 2) caller wait-time notification. Guthmann stated maybe the issue itself needs to be revised. The issue is how IRS responds to telephone calls.

• E-file Emphasis/Taxpayer Rights – Ralph Rivera
  We made several recommendations and I don’t know where we stand at this time. Other than the previous work, I don’t know where we will go with this. Stieger, this issue should either be rolled into free file or put in the parking lot until we get done with the free file issue. Consensus to put in parking lot until response to Commissioner is completed.

• Issue Review – Mary Ann Delzer
  With a group this size, you need to pick a couple issues to work and put the rest in the parking lot. Guthmann and Stieger went through all the Area 5 issues and prioritized them. They closed the legislative issues and the issues that were already being worked by other committees.

Free-File Report for the Commissioner
Coston shared that the panel members who met with the Commissioner were Brubaker, Woo, Duquette, Kasturi, Havey, Combs.

The Commissioner wants input regarding:

1. Section 7216 regulations (selling taxpayer information)
2. Return preparers regulations (licensing)
3. The direction of VITA/TCE (as TAC offices decline, what role are VITA/TCE going to serve)
4. Private collection agencies (parceling out of “old” debts to collect on behalf of the IRS)
5. The availability of “Free-file” for taxpayers (this year, the ceiling was cut back)

Coston last filing season there was no income cap on the Free File program. Some of the vendors felt the IRS was taking away business from them by offering electronic filing for free. Congress listened to their claims. The NTA came back and said if it is “free file”; it should be free to everyone. Why can’t the IRS put a template on the irs.gov that will allow everyone to free file directly to the IRS without going through a third party? Commissioner wants to know what taxpayers are saying. What will make the taxpayers e-file? What’s it gong to take to get there and how are we going to get there?

Free File Brainstorming

• Difficult to find – have to know where to go
• “Up-selling” return check– audit protection
• Must enter through “the portal” for free
• RALs sold on Free File
• Error code problems – what do they mean to “real” people
• If template – should not have dollar limit
• Use of commercial software – but transmit free
• Eliminate the vendor – direct filing to IRS
• Do we need incentives – get refund quicker
• What do we really want to call this program…name deceptive?
• Take bids and purchase the software / or royalties

Position: Availability of Free File

• Website based
• Negotiation position “weak” Dollar limits compromise
• Industry – how it affects their business
• Congressional interest
• Nina – template on irs.gov – direct filing

Landauer stated when you e-file, you have to wait 24 – 48 hours to find out if it’s been accepted. Once you send a paper return, it’s gone. Why should the software companies do this for free? They are a business and are in it for the profit.

Subcommittee members: Stieger, Bland, Wong

ACTION: Initial draft to Area 5 by Friday, June 9. It will be sent to all committee members for review and then discussion by the meeting on June 13, 2006.

Sub Committee work for the remainder of the day

Closing/Assessment:
Good meeting
Everyone participated
Able to go through the issue list and thin out
Great meeting. Went overtime on some issues but caught up at the end
Stayed on focus
With new chair and three “new” members and the committee really gelled. The interaction was great and everyone participated
Thanked Howard for use of meeting space. Good to meet everyone
Good meeting and pleasure to meet everyone. Having gone to two face-to-face meetings, back to back, I have gotten more excited about TAP. Not just a voice on the telephone anymore.

Meeting Adjourned

Tuesday, May 23, 2006

Welcome/Announcements/Review Agenda
Meet the LTA: Joe Warren
Joe Warren is the new LTA in Minneapolis. Warren explained he has an office of six advocates. TAS wants TAP to succeed because TAP will help make our job easier. Due to the increase in enforcement actions, the percentage of lien and levy cases has increased dramatically. Most calls we receive this time of year is someone looking for their refund, or they have a lien or levy. Currently, it is not easy to get the IRS to lift a lien. The whole process is very difficult to deal with. Wong asked what types of cases Warren’s office works on.

ACTION: Delzer to send TAS issue report to members of Area 5.

Amended returns, Form 1040X, are still high up on the list. Part of the problem is that there are a limited number of tax examiners and sometimes the cases sit for a while before an examiner can work it. Warren thinks that the 1040X may show up in the next NTA Report to Congress. She has been doing a study on amended return processing as they have been such a problem.

Adams explained that each LTA has a portfolio, which are various issues identified from SAMS. Adams’ portfolio is backup withholding. She is the “go to person” for this issue. She is currently researching to see how big a problem it is. Delzer can look at the portfolio list to see which LTA is working the issue. TAS wants TAP to weigh all input.

Wong asked how TAS gets the word out about themselves to let people know they are out there to help. McQuin replied there is an advertising agency hired to prepare literature. A primary focus for TAS is to let people know they are there. Their inventories have been climbing. The word is getting out that TAS is there to help.

Colvin asked if TAS offers forms 911 when they do outreaches. Form 911 is a Taxpayer Advocate form that a taxpayer can fill out and request relief. They can list the problems they have encountered with the IRS and ask for a recommended solution. TAS will work a case for a taxpayer anyway they are contacted. The important thing is that we get the information so we can help the taxpayer. About 70% of the taxpayers receive relief; the other 30% do not receive the relief they request due to statutory restrictions. Warren said when he does an outreach, he would try to invite a TAP member to go with him, but if nobody can go, he will talk about TAP.

Outreach Reports / Communication Strategy
McQuin reminded TAP members to send outreach information to Delzer whenever you do an outreach. We really need to capture this information so the events can be rolled up into the annual report. As Coston continues to develop measures, it is important to identify how many people TAP has contacted. You have all talked to the LTA in your state and they can help you identify outreaches. We do have money available for you to do outreach. Be sure to contact us in the office before you travel for outreach. It would be best if you contact us several days in advance or even a couple weeks in advance.

It is important to set goals. You need to determine if you want them to be individual or group goals. Last year Area 5 decided on fifteen outreaches for each member per year. This may be easier for some to do than others. Delzer reminded members she can put together an individual introductory kit if you would like one.

ACTION: Delzer will send out the cover letter used in the introductory kit via email to committee members.

Stieger mentioned contacting his legislative representatives. They have mini town hall meetings that are usually open to the public. McQuin said any that you can identify would be good. Bland asked how you keep track of the individual people you speak to. Delzer said you could report each contact.

Rivera said he would like to see the success stories that apply to basic taxpayers. Some of the success stories deal with issues not every taxpayer would understand.

ACTION: Delzer to check with Communication Committee to see if they have updated success stories for outreach.

Colvin said it’s good to set individual goals to hold all accountable. There is a PowerPoint presentation that can be used which can be individualized by Delzer. If you have any questions or want something tailored to you, please contact the office

ACTION: Delzer will send Wong the Outreach Workshop information.

Stieger suggested one a month. There are different ways to do outreach other than speaking to groups. You can do a letter to the editor and send it to your local paper.

ACTION: Delzer to forward to Communications Committee the possibility of having TAP pencils printed up to hand out at outreaches.

The committee members decided that the individual goal would be one each month. There are six months left this year, so each member committed to do six outreaches by the end of the year. Please remember to send in your outreach report.

Subcommittee Work
All actions due before the next meeting, June 13, 2006

• Forms and Pubs Training – setting up conference call with Forms and Pubs people
• Toll free – contact Intuit for call model; call routing for “211”
• POA – will prepare a draft write up
• Free File – Draft due 6/9/06

Office Report
McQuin is looking for Panel Members to help with interviews the week of June 19. Interview panel will be a Panel member, a LTA, and a Manager. We should be able to complete all the interviews in one week. All the managers are coming into Milwaukee next week to rank all the applications. Each manager will rank the applicants in their own Area. Will send out the application package before the interview, so you know what questions will be asked. It will explain the whole interview process.

ACTION: Panel members available to do interviews the week of June 19 to email McQuin their availability.

The next town hall meeting is being hosted by Area 4 on June 6 in Cincinnati. This is the last one this year, but the NTA is interested in continuing this effort next year.

The IRS has tax forums throughout the country every year, but TAP will not be attending this year. Partly because we did the town hall meetings, but also because the feedback from panel members was that the issues we get from the tax forums are seldom TAP issues. They are usually practitioner issues. We are getting a lot more out of the town hall meetings.

Closing and Assessment
Landauer-- encouraged everyone not to get discouraged. Don’t worry about the technical issues. Don’t be afraid to speak up even if you are not a practitioner. If you really feel you have something that is important, be a pest.

Bland – very informative

Guthmann – enjoyed meeting Joe Warren. Was interested to hear the way they talked about the IRS, as like they were separate.

Colvin – feel like I’m getting a better sense of TAP and what we can and cannot do.

Wong – we have an opportunity to make an impact even though we are around for a short time.

Suther – Delzer can give so much information and we don’t use her as much as we should. While we are TAP members, we are also taxpayers. We need to find ways to help the taxpayers pay their taxes.

McQuin – all of us that work for the IRS get so used to processes; we forget that you don’t have the same knowledge.

Adams – we do refer to the IRS as a separate entity. We became an independent organization within the IRS in 1998 as a result of the Revenue Reconciliation Act. I’ve been with the IRS for over 30 years, and would be happy to offer my assistance anytime I can help you.

McQuin – Marian can give you all the TAS information because we at TAP do not keep up.

McQuin agrees with Wong, things do move very slowly. If you don’t see an impact while you are still a member you have still been effective. It can take years for your recommendations to be implemented.

Stieger – feel more comfortable as a member now. The face-to-face gives us a better chance to interface with each other. I feel better about being able to make an impact.

McQuin asked Colvin and Stieger if they thought that applicants could not make the annual meeting, should they still be considered for membership. They both responded that they did get that impression. The problem this year was the date of the annual meeting changed. Delzer did a very good job of doing orientation on the phone. Stieger doesn’t know if face-to-face orientation would be as beneficial because you would not be able to meet the rest of the panel members. Colvin suggested inviting new members who cannot make the annual meeting to the next scheduled face-to-face meeting and do orientation there.

Rivera thanked everyone for their time and input. He also thanked Howard Guthmann for his hospitality.

Meeting adjourned.