May 16, 2003
Atlanta, Georgia

Members in Attendance:

• Charlotte Cassady
• Helen Curol
• Gwen Handelman
• Edward Hanna
• Sharon Lassar
• Owen Oatley
• Buck Paolone
• George Sullivan
• Steven Wood
• Carolyn Lewis

Staff:

• Sallie Chavez, TAP Program Analyst
• Nancy Ferree, TAP Program Manager

Guests:

• Vincent Balloon, GAO (May 16, 2003)
• Cecil Norris, NATP (May 16, 2003)
• Beverly Ratliff (May 16, 2003)
• Jane Brough, IRS, Government Liaison, Atlanta (May 16 & 17, 2003)
• Betty Allen, IRS, Local Taxpayer Advocate, Atlanta (May 16, 2003)
• Rob Casey, NATP (May 17, 2003)
• Sonja Ware, GAO (May 17, 2003)

WELCOME
Panel Chair Edward Hanna welcomed everyone. Chair requested the guests to introduce themselves.

CITIZEN INPUT
There was no input from the citizens in attendance.

REVIEW OF APRIL 25, 2003 MEETING MINUTES
The meeting minutes were accepted by consensus.

OUTLINE OF PLAN FOR CONFERENCE AND OBTAIN CONSENSUS
Committee Chair Ed Hanna reported on several of the issues from the Joint Committee meeting held earlier this month. Issues that come to the area committee which deal with changes to the code are not the primary responsibility of the committee. Issues that are elevated to the Joint Committee and then, eventually, to the IRS are not going to be completed quickly. It may take as long as 2 years or more. Any issue that is elevated to the Joint Committee must be well written and prepared. Area 3 was the first to elevate an issue to the Joint Committee (Recordkeeping Requirements). Committee Chair Hanna congratulated Committee Members Charlotte Cassady, Gwen Handelman and Sharon Lassar for their efforts on this issue.

Committee Chair Hanna stated the format for this meeting would begin with the sub-committees breaking into their groups to organize their issues and bring back the information to the committee so the committee can come to consensus.

There was a discussion about the Paid Tax Preparers. The IRS is against the licensing of paid tax preparers, the National Taxpayer Advocate is in favor and Congress is against the policy. The Ad Hoc Committee is actively working on this issue.

NEW VICE-CHAIR
Committee Chair Ed Hanna announced that Vice Chair Keith Johnson has just accepted a new job and will be unable to continue as the Vice Chair. He would like someone to volunteer for the position. There were no volunteers. Chair asked to consider this issue and he will bring it up again tomorrow at the meeting.

COMMITTEE BROKEN INTO SUB-COMMITTEES FOR APPROXIMATELY 1 HOUR.

SUB-COMMITTEE REPORTS

W-4
Sub-Committee Chair Sharon Lassar stated that the sub-committee decided to hold off on this issue and would like it to be put in the "parking lot" for the present. Sub-Committee Chair Lassar would like to get together with other area committees to see what they are doing on this issue. Sub-Committee Chair Lassar states the IRS is not in favor of raising the exemption limits. She feels that keeping the limits low will feed the Refund Anticipation Loans given by some accounting firms.

TAP Program Manager Nancy Ferree stated she received information with a list of IRS resource people who the staff can contact for further information.

Red Border W-2s, etc.
Committee Chair Ed Hanna stated that TAP Program Analyst Chavez has researched and found that the reason for the "Red Borders" is because of the optical readers used by the campus to convert the information to the IRS computer. TAP Program Manager Ferree stated she recently received a response from Gill Queen who would be willing to assist the committee with any questions they have concerning these forms. Committee Chair Hanna would like to proceed on this issue.

ACTION ITEM: TAP Program Manager Ferree will invite Gill Queen to an area committee telephone conference call.

Customer Fairness
Sub-Committee Chair George Sullivan stated that this issue is to encourage IRS employee to give TAP (anonymously) issues on how to change the IRS. There are five (5) or six (6) other means besides using the union that this can be done.

ACTION ITEM: Sub-Committee Chair Sullivan will prepare a recommendation for the June meeting.

TAP Program Manager Ferree explained that not every IRS employee is a union member. The issue is that employees need to hear about TAP. This can be done by using flyers in pay stubs and informing employees about the TAP web site. Union personnel are already overburdened and the TAP should not put another burden on them.

Committee Member Gwen Handelman stated that the TAP should "Partner" with the unions. Both Designated Federal Official Carolyn Lewis and TAP Program Manager Nancy Ferree stated that the proposal will go to the Joint Committee and, if approved, it will go to the National Taxpayer Advocate and the union will get involved but at a different level. This is a "Service Wide" issue and it can't start at the bottom. Need to deal with Colleen Kelly, National Treasury Employee Union President.

Committee Member Buck Paolone would like to see exit surveys used by the IRS. He wants to find out where the problems are that taxpayers are having. TAP Manager Ferree asked to have him write up something and the staff can get the information.

ACTION ITEM: Committee Member Buck Paolone will write up request.

Committee Member Helen Carol thinks National Treasury Employee Union President should be invited to the Joint Committee Meeting.

Telephone List/Answering Quality/One Call/One Accountability
Sub-Committee Member Buck Paolone states he would like to get together with Sub-Committee Chair Tim Jarrell who was unable to attend today. He is hoping to be here tomorrow. He would like to re-write the proposal they have based on the information received during the tour this morning at the submission center and the joint operation center.

He has several questions still.

1. Telephone listing - who has responsibility of getting the numbers in the phone book?
2. Toll-free menu - there are many questions on how it is set up.

This issue will be discussed again tomorrow in more detail when Committee Member Tim Jarrell is present.

Walk-in Review
Chair Ed Hanna handed out "Review Sheets" that, after a discussion with Designated Federal Official Carolyn Lewis, TAP Program Manager Nancy Ferree and TAP Program Analyst Sallie Chavez, it was decided that the managers in the offices could answer these questions and no office visit would be needed. Committee provided changes to the questions. TAP Analyst Chavez will re-type the forms and send them out to committee members. Designated Federal Official Lewis also stated that someone from Field Assistance could come to the conference call and the committee could ask them the questions and get expectations and see if they are met.

Committee Member Sharon Lassar wanted to know what the committee is trying to accomplish. Committee Member Helen Curol wants to know what field offices are giving out. TAP Program Manager Nancy Ferree stated that the committee needed to be "educated" about field TAC offices and then pick out what is needed and make suggestions.

It was decided to hold off on the survey.

ACTION ITEM: The TAP staff will get a Subject Matter Expert on a call for the June 20 meeting.

Committee Chair Ed Hanna stated he would like to know what the committee thinks about face-to-face meetings vs. conference calls. He would like the committee to think about this and it will be discuss during the meeting tomorrow.

Schedule K-1s
Sub-committee Chair Owen Oatley discussed the issue. The requirements were that if the basis was $250,000 or less, a schedule needed to be prepared. Without the schedule there could be arguments between client and practitioner as there would need to reconstruct the basis.

Committee Member Sharon Lassar asked if this meant that Sub Chapter S Corporations would be required to compute basis for each stockholder. She thinks taxpayers (stockholders) should keep track of basis. Practitioners may charge more to prepare returns (K-1s) with this information.

Committee Member Gwen Handelman stated that Sub-Committee Chair Oatley's proposal seems to be middle ground between nothing and a balance sheet.

Committee Member Lassar thinks that this will "increase" taxpayer burden and IRS will not entertain recommendation. Committee Member Gwen Handelman stated that the recommendation could be prepared stating benefits to show it isn't an increase in taxpayer burden.

Sub-Committee Chair Oatley reviewed previous options. Via consensus committee decided on option number one.

ACTION ITEM: Sub-Committee Chair Oatley will prepare recommendation to be forwarded to the Joint Committee.

Military Information
Sub-Committee Chair Owen Oatley read email TAP staff received concerning the phone number for military personnel. The number is not available to the general public. He still has a problem with this. Is this just for combat zone?

Committee Member Gwen Handelman stated she met with someone from SPEC and she recommends we get someone on a conference call to explain what IRS is doing for military.

Governmental Liaison Jane Brough volunteered some information she has on the military. All IRS issues are run through the Judge Advocate General (JAG) on all bases during filing season. There is an extensive VITA presence on all military bases during filing season. There is a web site for military that contains all the notices and news releases. This service is not available year round. The statute is extended for all military personnel.

Meeting was adjourned for the day.

MAY 17, 2003

INTRODUCTIONS OF GUESTS
Committee Chair allowed the guests to introduce themselves.

SUB-COMMITTEE REPORTS (continued)

OIC
Sub-Committee Chair Owen Oatley asked Designated Federal Official Carolyn Lewis for information on who is working on the Offer in Compromise for National Taxpayer Advocate in National Office. He reviewed the National Taxpayer Advocate's Report to Congress and some numbers from the IRS Data Book.

ACTION ITEM: Committee Chair asked Sub-Committee Chair Oatley to prepare a list of questions. Designated Federal Official Lewis stated a subject matter expert could either answer the questions on a conference call or via an email.

Telephone List/Answering Quality/One Call/One Accountability
Sub-Committee Member Buck Paolone reviewed the recommendations he and Sub-Committee Chair Tim Jarrell had previously discussed (since Committee Chair Jarrell was not in attendance).

1. "Geographic directories - printed on glossy plastic colored 7" x 5" cards, distinctive color for each region - with IRS phone numbers pertinent to the particular Call Center within that geographic region. These cards made available in Campus (assistance) Centers, at the IRS website, in post offices, in libraries, in state tax assistance centers. (This might be a precursor to facilitate geographically staggered tax filing deadlines.)"

Since there are no calls going to "geographic locations" which was discussed at the Joint Operations Center yesterday, this would not be a good suggestion. Designated Federal Official Carolyn Lewis stated that a directory based on specialties couldn't be done. TAP Program Manager Nancy Ferree stated there are only about 5 IRS public numbers.

2. "List phone number and extension (if appropriate) on each Schedule that is available to taxpayers, so that calls can be directed to a specialist for that specific topic. These listings to be also printed within Tax Return Booklets sent to taxpayers, and made available on the IRS website."

Since the tour yesterday, this also would not be a good suggestion and therefore it will be skipped.

3. "Enhance current blue-page listings, as well as white-page listings, in the directories of every town so that the above noted geographic centers are presented and easier to locate when using the phone book."

This refers to number one above.

4. "List the state Taxpayer Advocate by title in the blue pages and the white pages of directories in every town; also, have each state Campus Center assist the taxpayers by posting large placards noting this Taxpayer Advocate Service within their offices and their respective state. Utilize Taxpayer Advocate and staff for assistance on greater range of problems; expand eligibility criteria for acceptance into Program."

This is being worked on. There should be a listing in both blue pages and white pages. Designated Federal Official Carolyn Lewis stated that some of the phone books still list the Problem Resolution Office number. This is the predecessor of the taxpayer advocate.

5. "List phone number and extension (if appropriate) on notices/letters sent to taxpayer and that denotes the geographic Call Center corresponding to the geographic center where that taxpayer sends his/her return. This will enable the taxpayer to call his/her particular Center so that records are easily accessible by/to the IRS Assistor."

Based on the tour yesterday, this will be omitted.

6. "If a 24-hour service is advertised, then have Assistors available during 24/7 period. Otherwise specify hours when questions can be taken and allow taxpayer to leave detailed message for return call or e-mail reply."

The 24/7 is an automated system. The system needs to be improved not reinvented. It would be nice to be able to route a call back to a person you were speaking with previously.

7. "Provide for instant feedback to assess/evaluate quality of service by having an automated phone call system operate immediately after each call for assistance/information/request/inquire. The automated call covers 5 topics: 'Problem Area' - 'Perception of Importance' - 'Contact(s)' - 'Result(s)' - 'Satisfaction Level'."

During the tour this question was asked and the committee was informed that a survey is conducted (by sample) before the call ended. Sub-Committee Member Paolone would like to have these survey questions. TAP Program Manager will get this information

ACTION ITEM: TAP Program Manager will get survey questions asked after a toll-free contact.

Committee Chair Ed Hanna thanked Sub-Committee Member Buck Paolone for all his work even though some of the issues were eliminated by the information received yesterday during the tour to the phone center.

Committee Member Owen Oatley said options are still a problem. He would like to see them expanded as appropriate. Committee Member Gwen Handelman said taxpayers don't want more options. Committee needs to look at the "script" and see if what taxpayer's are asking for fits.

ACTION ITEM: TAP Program Manager will get toll-free "script".

ACTION ITEM: Sub-Committee Member Paolone will reformulate his recommendation.

Specialist for Clergy returns & information
Committee Chair Ed Hanna stated that clergy returns are different than a regular return. Committee Member Sharon Lassar asked if there were specialists? Designated Federal Official Carolyn Lewis stated there should be.

Find out if this is a systemic problem. Committee Member Lassar would like to know how many clergy returns are denied EITC because parsonage is included in self-Employment but not in income tax. EITC should be based on income not self-employment.

ACTION ITEM: TAP Program Manager will obtain statistics on this issue.

Estimated Tax Payment
Committee Chair Ed Hanna stated the IRS is working on this issue. He wants to wait and see what they do on it. This issue will be put in the parking lot.

Estimated Tax Penalty
New Sub-Committee Chair Steve Wood stated this came from a previous issue. The issue is to possibly raise the threshold of the penalty. Designated Federal Official Carolyn Lewis stated that the committee should determine what the amount of withholding is on pension income. When does the Form 2210 kick in?

OUTLINE AND DISCUSSION OF ISSUES SUBMITTED BY CITIZENS
403-5 - Taxpayer complained that she was having a difficult time getting an EIN (even got 2 EINs). She was given a long distance telephone number to call and check on her EIN.

Committee Chair stated that this does not happen often. Most time EINs are assigned within five (5) days. He was more upset about her being given a long distance telephone number and not the toll-free number. Maybe this service needs more publicity. Governmental Liaison June Brough interjected that Georgia was one of several states using a pilot program to get an EIN on the internet. It is scheduled to be released Nationwide in the next five (5) to six (6) months.

TAP Program Analyst Chavez will write a letter to taxpayer explaining the above information.

403-6 - Taxpayer was complaining about the service received by an IRS employee and how her issue was not resolved.

This should be forwarded to TAS.

TAP Program Analyst will contact taxpayer and handle the situation.

403-7 - Taxpayer feels those IRS employees are not knowledgeable enough on how to address 401K rollovers into IRSs.

Committee discussed this issue. Committee Chair Ed Hanna stated that this should be the employer responsibility not the IRS. It was decided that the taxpayer should be told that he should contact a "tax professional".

TAP Program Analyst will contact the taxpayer with the above information.

403-8 - Taxpayer would like to see the checkbox authority not be limited to the processing only timeframe.

Committee Chair Ed Hanna commented that this issue has already been elevated to the Joint Committee. Committee is awaiting their response.

TAP Program Analyst will advise taxpayer.

403-9 - Taxpayer states that he does not believe IRS employees have the knowledge they should in order to answer questions.

Committee discussed this and determined that IRS does studies and that the technical answers have been improving. Without specific questions no recommendation can be made. Committee does not want to pursue this issue.

No contact information to reply to taxpayer.

403-10 - Taxpayer wants a "National Retail Sales Tax".

Committee determined this would be a legislative issue.

TAP Program Analyst will advise taxpayer to contact his congressional office.

403-11 - This is an issue discuss last month (duplicate issue). It was dropped.

403-12 - Practitioner states that when he receives some sort of correspondence from audits he responds on time but he then gets a stat notice.

Designated Federal Official Carolyn Lewis states that practitioner is probably sending the information to the Service Campus with his correspondence on top. If you send the information back with the notice on top it will go directly to the unit that sent the notice. Practitioners probably do not know about this.

Refer this to the Notice Issue Committee.

503-1 - Taxpayer is complaining that the Taxpayer Assistance Center would not accept Military ID in lieu of a Social Security Card for return preparation.

There is not enough information here to do anything. Dropped issue.

503-2 - Taxpayer has 3 issues - (1) tax laws are too complicated, (2) not enough help on toll-free number, and (3) leaving a number and hoping to be home when the call is returned is poor service.

First issue taxpayer needs to write to his congressional representative. Other issues fall under the telephone answering and quality.

TAP Program Analyst will respond to taxpayer.

503-3 - Taxpayer needs help in filing out Form 1120. He thinks the instructions should be written better.

Committee discussed this issue. It was determined that this is not a TAP Issue and that the taxpayer should consult with a tax professional on a complex issue such as this.

TAP Program Analyst will respond to taxpayer.

Committee Member Steven Wood wanted to know if we are duplicating issues. Committee Chair Ed Hanna stated there was an Issue Matrix and that any issues that were duplicates should be referred to the committee who is working on that issue.

TAP Program Manager Ferree discussed the new Web based program called TAP Speak. This program is available to all committee members and is set up where you can have discussions about issues and read information from National Taxpayer Advocate.

ACTION ITEM: TAP Program Analyst Chavez will send out the web address for TAP Speak.

DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED NEW ISSUES
Committee Chair Ed Hanna discussed an issue that was forwarded from Committee Member Agnes Tillerson. It concerns the outsourcing of tax preparation to companies in India. She feels there should be three (3) questions asked before it is send there.

1. Did the practitioner notify the taxpayer that his/her return was being send to India to be prepared?
2. Is the agency in India held to the same requirement to privacy as the practitioner?
3. Does the practitioner get permission from the taxpayer to outsource the return preparation?

There was much discussion about this issue. Governmental Liaison Jane Brough stated that the state of Georgia had been approached about this but had turned it down.

Committee Chair Ed Hanna asked if the committee wanted to pursue this issue. Since it is very close to the licensing of tax professionals, it was decided that it be forwarded to the Ad Hoc Issue Committee to be considered with their licensing issue.

ACTION ITEM: TAP Program Analyst will forward to the Ad Hoc Committee for their consideration.

Committee Member Owen Oatley read an article from the Orlando Sentinel about collection in the hands of a private collector. There was much discussion about this issue. In the end it was decided that it does not apply to the committee.

Committee Chair Ed Hanna again brought up the issues of combining Area and Issue Committee meetings. He would like a response from each member. Please respond as soon as possible.

Committee Chair Ed Hanna asked for volunteers to be Vice Chair. There were no volunteers. Committee Chair needs help so he will contact committee members and select a Vice Chair.

Committee Member Owen Oatley stated he was being interviewed by a newspaper and needed promotional information on the TAP. TAP Program Analyst sent him some information but he feels TAP needs more. Committee Member Buck Paolone stated the Ad Hoc Issue Committee is working on a National Media Campaign.

Committee Chair Ed Hanna thanked everyone for coming. He asked that everyone complete a meeting survey. The next meeting will be a teleconference on June 20, 2003.

Meeting was adjourned.