Area 2 Committee Meeting Minutes

Date: September 7, 2004 (3:00 PM – 4:30 PM ET)
Via: Teleconference

Roll call was taken and quorum was met;
Quorum=8
13 Members and the Acting Designated Federal Official (DFO) were present on this call.

Designated Federal Official (Acting)

• Eileen DeLeo, TAS Senior Analyst (Assigned by DFO Terry Mapp)

Panel Members Present

• Mary Balmer, NC
• Richard (Dick) Bobb, NC
• Anthony DiMartino, Co Vice-Chair, NJ
• C. Morgan Edwards, NC
• Jerry Gensiejewski, Jr., PA
• Calvin Johnson, VA
• Karen Kerrigan, VA
• Robert Maziarz, NJ
• Patrick McCombie, DE
• David L. Meyer, CHAIR, NJ
• Theodore Perros, D.C.
• Agnes Tillerson, PA
• Faith Vinikoor, Co Vice-Chair, MD

Members Not Present

• Leonard Steinberg, NJ

TAP Staff

• Inez E. De Jesus, TAP Program Analyst (Scribe)
• Nancy L. Ferree, TAP Program Manager

Welcome/Announcements/Review Agenda
Chair David L. Meyer opened the meeting by extending a warm welcome to Agnes Tillerson who was recently reassigned from Area 3 to the Area 2 committee.

Chair stated that this will be the panel’s last meeting for this fiscal year, and since some members like him will not be returning for the new term that commences in November 2004, he looks forward to the committees’ continual good works.
Chair shared that the Joint Committee met a couple of weeks ago and most significant issues were tabled for discussion during their face-to-face meeting in Denver this week.

Review/approve meeting minutes of August 3, 2004
Minutes as presented were approved unanimously.

Review all Action Items from Previous Meeting
Inez provided an account of all action items from the previous meeting as follows:

• On Page 2-top of page, Steinberg will forward to Karen Kerrigan the email from Mary Ann Delzer requesting feedback and suggested agenda items for the upcoming annual meeting. Current Status: Karen indicated that she had not received it; this email was forwarded to Karen right after this meeting. (Complete)
• Bottom of same page, agenda items for Joint Committee’s face-to-face meeting should be brought to the attention of David or Leonard. Current Status: Assumed that this has been done by now.
• On Page 3-top of page, Inez is to inquire on “What outside focus groups are being used by the IRS to review revised forms and /or publications”. Status: On August 26, 2004, response received from the subject matter expert was shared with the entire committee and DFO by email.
• Further down on Page 3, “Evaluation Survey on Lessons Learned During the Past 2 Years” has been tabled to the September 7, 2004 meeting.
• Bottom of same page, Nancy Ferree drafted the response to the Practitioner from Maryland, Issue # 3139; after sharing with the committee and receiving approval, the letter was mailed on September 1, 2004 and issue was closed.
• On Page 4- McCombie is to finalize draft recommendation on “Simplifying Form 1041” by using examples. Current Status: Completed.
• On Page 5- Regarding Issue # 3123, Improve Payment System, Action item for Inez to inquire if this is related to a systemic problem. There was no indication on the SAMS system, and Tony DiMartino spoke to the Citizen from Maryland who is blind and learned that the relative that had prepared the tax return had made an error by using his or her own social security number. This issue was closed on August 19, 2004. DiMartino confirmed his dialogue with the citizen and felt that IRS had done the right thing.
• On Page 6, top of page, Publication 4255, IRS Tax Help Insert, Update since last meeting: Program Manager Nancy Ferree shared that this insert is a document used primarily by IRS employees and perhaps Practitioners. This insert lists the phone numbers and web addresses of the major units within the IRS. The Taxpayer Advocacy Panel’s toll free number is listed but not the website. Ferree has communicated with the originator of this document and he will be adding the TAP website to this document when it is revised.
• On Page 6, bottom of page, Inez is to ensure that the Area 2 panel members’ receives copies of the IRS Strategic Plan 2005-2009- these were mailed out on August 27, 2004.

Review “Draft” Recommendation- Simplify Form 1041 Instructions- Meyer turned this portion of the meeting to the Form 1041 Sub-committee Chairperson, Patrick McCombie. McCombie inquired if everyone had had time to review the latest draft. Responses received indicated agreement that the final revision was well done.

Faith Vinikoor pointed out the following that needs to be corrected:

1. The correct title should be “Simplify Form 1041 Instructions” and not “Simplify Form 1041 & Instructions," and
2. On Page 4 of the document, there appeared to be no consistency with the terminology face-to-face with hyphens.
3. Same paragraph, second line from the end, the word “comment” should be plural.

When the motion was made to elevate this recommendation to the Joint Committee, there was no opposition. Agreement was made that once Inez makes the corrections just referenced, she is to send it to the Joint Committee’s Program Analyst Barbara Toy so that it may be reviewed during the upcoming Joint Committee’s face-to-face meeting in Denver, at the end of this week. (This was done as recorded)

Review Evaluation Survey on Lessons Learned/Guidance for Future TAP Committees- Chair inquired if everyone had had time to review the summary that was recently circulated to all. He said “this was a great job”! This portion of the meeting was then turned over to Dick Bobb. Dick Bobb began by stating that he has had lots of experience working with volunteer groups and strongly believes that the Chair should assign work to the volunteers, and it is up to the individual to say “no” if he or she cannot handle the task.

He also stated that he has not attempted to make any conclusions out of this survey which ten members responded to, and in general he gives the committee a high mark for getting along well, and a low mark for lack of participation and lack of following up. Also, legislative issues were discussed too much. This led to the following dialogue among the panel members:

• DiMartino recalled that over a year ago, when the 1041 issue was first being reviewed by the sub-committee, and he submitted feedback on his experience in attempting to fill out the form, he never received follow-up or feedback to his remarks.
• Vinikoor mentioned that there is no special training for the leadership positions.
• Meyer stated that this is a volunteer organization and in his opinion the committee is not giving itself credit for the dedication shown and the accomplishments they have made within the past two years. The tax process in very unclear and hard to understand. Meyer commends this committee for what it has done and feels they should be proud of. He went on to express praise to the sub-committees and their efforts. Also, he stated the responsibility is to the individual members.
• Meyer also stated that the Joint Committee is aware of the growing pains during the past two years and how the committees function and are utilized.
• C. Morgan Edwards used the parable of moving a mountain by using a sand shovel as an illustration of what this advisory group is attempting to do in relation with its mission.
• Kerrigan shared her observation since she is the Vice-Chair, SB/SE Compliance, Schedule C Non-Filers Issue Committee, and they too had similar frustrations. Also, she feels that face-to-face meetings helped in getting things done as opposed to teleconference meetings. Within the issue committees, you already have the ears of the IRS via the Program Owners; it’s harder with the area committees.
• Dr. Perros stated he was impressed by the dedication of all, and requested a round of applause for those members that will be leaving.
• DiMartino gave Meyer the highest praise for his leadership and guidance during the past year. DiMartino shared that he is retired and does not understand how anyone can still hold a job, have other responsibilities, and still volunteer with TAP.

Summary: David proposed, and it was accepted, that the “lessons learned” by this committee be incorporated with the Committee’s Annual Assessment report. He had questions and requested clarification from Inez on the quantifiable data listed in the summary on the number and type of issues received by this committee.

Action item for Inez & David:

• Inez will provide David with a specific breakdown of total issues received, total number of issues elevated to the Joint Committee, number of legislative issues, issues that were beyond the TAP Mission, etc.
• David will be submitting portions of the “Survey Summaries” with the Annual Assessment Report to the Joint Committee that is due by October 15, 2004. (This information will be shared with the committee)

Committee’s Annual Self- Assessment Report
As previously discussed, Chair summarized that revisions to the “Lessons Learned” report will be incorporated into the annual self-assessment report since most of the committee’s thoughts are reflected in the summary.

McCombie made the suggestion of perhaps capturing and using “Success Stories” and Ferree shared that the TAP National Office staff is already working on this with the “Communication Strategy”. It’s in the works.

Ferree also mentioned that there is a Summary of TAP Recommendations made available by the Joint Committee to the Chairs on a monthly basis. Agnes Tillerson stated that this should be shared with all. Update: On September 9, 2004, Inez sent an email to the entire committee with a link to TAP Speak, http://tapspeak.fedworx.org/ where this and other similar reports are posted periodically. Inez also requested from the panel, to let her know if they wanted a specific report downloaded and copy sent to them.

Request to Change TAP Name Issue (Issue # 3141)
DiMartino shared with the panel his conversation with Mr. Abramowitz, Citizen from Maryland, who made this suggestion. Mr. Abramowitz had experienced confusion with TAP since the name is so close to TAS, Taxpayer Advocate Service.

• Balmer shared that it has been her experience also when doing outreach, of encountering the same confusion from the citizens/taxpayers.
• Meyer recalls that this has been discussed during Joint Committee meetings.
• Ferree also shared that on the TAP Toll-Free line, we constantly get phone calls from those who are trying to get in touch with TAS.
• Vinikoor made an inquiry on whether changing the TAP name comes under the jurisdiction of the National Taxpayer Advocate or the Department of the Treasury.
• Ferree believes that this is on the TAP Director’s radar screen. (There is strength in numbers)
• Morgan reminded everyone that the name had been changed in 2002 from Citizen Advocacy Panel (CAP) to Taxpayer Advocacy Panel.
• Meyer asked DiMartino if he would like to take this to the new panel in November 2004. Agreement was made that this is a good proposal, and that perhaps it may be included in the Annual Assessment Report. Action Item: DiMartino volunteered to prepare “draft” recommendation “Requesting Change of TAP Name” and will be circulating among the entire committee as soon as possible.

Outreach Efforts
C. Morgan Edwards shared that on September 1. 2004, he met with the North Carolina Local Taxpayer Advocate and two members of her staff with the goal of defining an outreach process for the Western North Carolina area and maybe the state. Agreement was made to try to use second tier print media to tell “our story”. Morgan stated that he is willing to represent TAP and Inez will be supplying him with TAP Marketing supplies.

Review of New Issues & Wrap Up of “Old” Issue(s)
Inez shared that there were no TAP related issues received.

In regards to Issue # 2389, “Improve Communications to Taxpayers”- chaired by Dr. Perros, will be carried over for the new panel in November 2004.

At this point, Morgan brought to the panel’s attention, his concern regarding existing problems with church organizations.

• This led to brief discussion whether these were legislative in nature.
• Ferree reminded everyone of the TAP Mission statement.
• Perros agreed with Morgan that the panel as advocates should keep issues like these under their radar screen.
• Balmer shared that the Senate Finance Committee is aware of issues involving non-profit organizations as well as IRS Commissioner Mark Everson and as a result, there has been an increase in audits recently.
• Meyer suggested that since Morgan is one of the panel members that will continue in November, that perhaps he can bring his concerns to the new panel for their consideration.

A “Few Words” from the Staff
Nancy thanked everyone specifically those who are leaving for their commitment and dedication. She shared that “thank you” letters and certificates are forth coming from the National Office to those who are currently leaving. She also stated that the first year is one of learning and that the committee should not be too hard on themselves. “This has been a learning curve for all of us.”

Inez followed by expressing her appreciation specifically to Mary and David whom she has worked closely with within the past two years.

Dr. Perros also shared his appreciation for those who are leaving and informed Mary and David that they will be greatly missed. “Please keep in touch.” Appreciation towards the staff was shared at this time as well.

Public Participation/Input
None

Closing Assessment
Before closing the meeting, Chair Meyer shared that he believes this panel had its highs and lows but despite it all they maintained respect for one another, and put forth their best efforts. He reminded everyone that the U.S. tax laws and collections process is a complicated system but it is his personal belief the IRS is the foremost tax processing agency in the world and, is the agency on which other countries seek to model their own tax agencies.

He also expressed his appreciation to everyone including the staff and informed all to keep his phone number and email address available and that he would be more than happy to hear from you and to be of any assistance.

Meyer wished much success in the future to the new in-coming panel.

Meeting was adjourned by Chair Meyer.

Note: There will be no October 2004 Meeting;
Orientation for New Members, November 3, 2004, 1:00 -5:00 PM (tentative time slot) in D.C.
Annual Meeting: November 4-6, 2004 in D.C.