Area 1 Committee Meeting Minutes

January 20, 2004
Teleconference

Opening of the Meeting
Chair Grimaldi opened the meeting and welcomed the members. Grimaldi inquired about receiving the same toll-free call-in number for all teleconferences. Knispel explained that she applied to receive this feature but the application was never processed. She will try again. Grimaldi asked if everyone had received the Conference Call Etiquette handout. Not everyone did. Grimaldi/Knispel will f/u to ensure everyone receives it.

Roll Call

Panel Members Attending

• Walter Fish, NY
• James Grimaldi, NY, Chair
• Catherine Kelly, ME
• Diane Mignano, RI
• Paul Nagel, NY
• Sandra Ramirez, NY, DFO
• Eileen Shuman, VT

Panel Members Absent

• Aimee Brace, NY
• Elizabeth Brodbine-Ghoniem, MA, Vice Chair
• William Gedge, CT
• Peter Gorga, Jr., NY, DFO
• Shamsey Oloko, NY
• Charles Silva, MA

Quorum was met.

TAP Staff Attending

• Marisa Knispel, TAP Program Analyst
• Sandra Ramirez, NY, TAP Program Manager

Meeting Minutes
Shuman did not understand that she was to draft two proposals, as noted in the Action Items of the minutes, so those items will carry over to the next meeting. Otherwise, the December 23, 2003 minutes were approved by consensus.

Subcommittee Reports

Financial Literacy: Grimaldi said that on Friday he will meet with the Brooklyn Borough President and his counsel to discuss efforts on improving financial literacy in Kings County, NY. Grimaldi added that he has also discussed this issue with a NY State Senator from Queens with whom he will meet next week. The efforts of improving financial literacy may take a long time, Grimaldi said, but he believes they will eventually come to fruition.

EITC Examination: Grimaldi was to provide information to Kelly and Shuman on this however, LITC Attorney Fred Arriaga had just e-mailed Grimaldi this morning.

Grimaldi clarified Arriaga's issue. Grimaldi explained that the EIC examination is really a correspondence examination, so the taxpayer or representative never gets the opportunity to speak to a person. A telephone number is provided on the notices, but usually voice mail picks up the call and when one does speak to a live person it is not the one handling the examination (it's a call center person). Generally, the employee receiving the call is not acquainted with the examination case in question and therefore unable to assist the caller. The taxpayer or representative ends up frustrated and unable to resolve any questions. When documents need to be submitted to the examiner/IRS, Arriaga would like to be able to explain the documentation before submission since they may not appear to be standard acceptable documentation.

The second complaint is that when the examiner/IRS sends a rejection of the documentation, the reason(s) for the rejection are vague or boiler-plated. An example of documentation that is often rejected is school records used to prove residence.

Shuman stated that she will soon meet face-to-face with her Notices Issue Committee and its IRS Program Owners and this would be an opportunity to clarify the issues with respect to these notices. She asked Grimaldi to compile samples of the EITC notices to request clarification from the IRS at this time. Grimaldi asked the members if they thought this issue belonged to the Notices Issue Committee or the EITC Issue Committee. To this, Nagel replied that since it is a problem in communication between the IRS and taxpayers, not a problem with the credit, it should be referred to the Notices Committee. They all agreed.

Fish asked if the name of the person to contact provided in these notices might be a fictitious name. Grimaldi replied that the name is not fictitious; but what adds to this problem is that an IRS employee from another part of the country, not the taxpayer's local area, may answer the phone. Kelly asked if anyone knew whether the taxpayer gets notified when his examination case is assigned to the Office of Appeals. Does the taxpayer receive the name and phone number of the Appeals Officer working his case? Grimaldi said that his experience with Appeals is different; the taxpayer gets notified of the person working his case and that person is usually in a local office.

Outsourcing: Shuman indicated that she has not completed her reading of the material Knispel sent her on this issue, or talked with Silva on this. However, it seems that there is an incentive for federal agencies to outsource federal work. The IRS has several programs slotted for “competitive outsourcing”. However, the union (NTEU) suggests that this practice will cost more to the IRS than having the already trained employees perform the jobs (i.e., it would cost $30 to collect $1 of revenue versus $3 to collect $1)). Shuman added that she is opposed to outsourcing; Kelly agreed.

Both have also heard rumors that the IRS is planning to outsource some jobs out of the country. Shuman added that one rumor was the outsourcing of tax revenue collection. The vendor would begin collection efforts on the simplest IRS cases. Although private companies are currently using other companies to collect their debts due to cost issues, collection of tax revenue by outside companies should evoke privacy concerns in taxpayers.

Fish noted that the state of New Jersey has been outsourcing collections for many years. Maybe we could benefit from listening to their experiences. Fish and Nagel asked Shuman if she had read that the government will actually outsource collections. Shuman said that by 2005 the government says they will.

Ramirez asked from where this issue arose. Shuman explained that it arose out of outsourcing the call site work but that the committee wants to look at outsourcing overall.

Grimaldi noted that even the city of New York outsources some of its work. Kelly noted that the state of Maine income tax department outsourced its Amnesty Program and it was a fiasco because even folks who owed no tax got notices..

Fish suggested that the Committee's attempts to discuss outsourcing be made more manageable by dividing the issue into two: outsourcing collections issues and the IRS toll-free line issues. Thus, there should be two separate subcommittees working on outsourcing. They all agreed. Fish will work on the outsourcing of the toll-free line and Shuman will continue her efforts in the collection issues. Grimaldi noted that Shuman, Silva and Fish can work the issues. Knispel indicated that the current outsourcing of the IRS's toll-free line is just a pilot program of limited duration, not a permanent plan. Knispel will supply information on outsourcing the call site work to Fish.

Health Insurance Deduction for Non-Insured Employee and W-4: Shuman will provide information at next meeting.

Follow-Up Issues
Knispel asked the members if they had read the IRS's response to Shuman's recommendation on adding a table addressing phase-outs to the 1040 instructions. Grimaldi summarized the response received from the Director of Tax Forms and Publications Denise Payne who explains that the IRS will consider the suggestion for the 2004 revision of the 1040 series instruction booklets.

Joint Committee Report
Grimaldi stated that the Committee's proposal on adding a TAP statement to the IRS printed material and the proposal on extending the EFTPS payment archive were forwarded to the Joint Committee. Since the next Joint Committee meeting would be later on today, this Committee's comments on the proposals would be forthcoming.

Face-To-Face Meeting in New York
Knispel said that Portsmouth, NH is the most cost-effective location to hold the Committee's face-to-face meeting and it seems to be a convenient location for all the members.

Public Input
None

Other Issues
Nagel asked if a replacement for New Hampshire's member would be joining the Committee prior to the face-to-face meeting. Ramirez said that the committee would have a New Hampshire member but maybe not in time for the face to face meeting.

Shuman asked Ramirez about the TAP's recruitment efforts and the selection process. Ramirez stated that the Joint Committee will discuss this issue in today's meeting and the information will be shared with all the members thereafter. Shuman added that she knows people interested in joining the TAP. Ramirez will provide the committee with information on the application and selection processes when more information is available. She encouraged Shuman and all the members to invite anyone they know who is interested to apply for membership by contacting our office. Ramirez said that the TAP needs to keep its list of alternates ready (possible member replacements) to insure all the states are represented when a member leaves at any time.

Grimaldi asked what are the TAP's marketing efforts on the recruitment process? Ramirez explained that recruitment is beginning in February. The TAP Director Bernie Coston is in meetings with the MLI staff (the company that supports the TAP website) to update the TAP's website for this purpose. The application will be available on-line.

Grimaldi asked if we could encourage recruitment of a member from New Hampshire while holding our face-to-face meeting in this state. Ramirez believed that would be a great opportunity to issue a press release in New Hampshire at the time to advertise our meeting and to announce the open position. Grimaldi inquired if this press release could be posted on the TAP's website. Fish suggested that these questions should be referred to the Joint Committee.

Closing Assessment
Grimaldi thanked all the members for their participation and will share with them via email the TAP's suggestions for conference call etiquette.

Meeting closed at 12:55 PM ET.

Next meeting will be Tuesday, February 24, 2004 at 11:00 am ET.

Action Items
Knispel to re-apply for conference call card so members have the same telephone number for each teleconference.

Grimaldi and Knispel will compile samples of IRS's EITC examination notices and send them to Shuman. Shuman will discuss the notices at her upcoming Notices Issue Committee in Atlanta.

Grimaldi/Knispel will email the TAP's suggestions for conference call etiquette to all the members.

Shuman to provide a report on W-4 and health insurance deduction for uninsured employees at next meeting.

Knispel to supply information on outsourcing the call site work to Fish.

Ramirez to provide update on recruitment.

Knispel to plan for new releases issuance one month before Face to face meeting in Portsmouth, NH.