Area 1 Committee Meeting Minutes

December 23, 2003
Teleconference

Opening of the Meeting
Chair Grimaldi opened the meeting at 11:02 A.M. by welcoming the members to the meeting and thanking them for their participation during this busy week.

Roll Call

Panel Members Attending

• Aimee Brace, NY
• Elizabeth Brodbine-Ghoniem, MA, Vice Chair
• Walter Fish, NY
• William Gedge, CT
• Peter Gorga, Jr., NY, DFO
• James Grimaldi, NY, Chair
• Catherine Kelly, ME
• Paul Nagel, NY
• Shamsey Oloko, NY
• Eileen Shuman, VT
• Charles Silva, MA

Panel Members Absent

• Diane Mignano, RI

TAP Staff Attending

• Marisa Knispel, TAP Program Analyst
• Audrey Jenkins, Acting TAP Program Manager

Meeting Minutes
The October 28, 2003 minutes were officially approved. The November 25, 2003 minutes were also approved pending the change indicating, “The October 28, 2003 minutes were discussed”, instead of “approved”.

Proposals to Elevate
Nagel’s and Brace’s proposal to add a statement to all IRS forms, publications and printed material to provide taxpayers the opportunity to offer suggestions on improving the IRS by contacting the TAP was discussed. Nagel said that the Area 2 Committee also had this issue under consideration. Area 2 Chair Meyer told Nagel that the Committee felt that the addition of a statement about the TAP to all IRS printed material might conflict with the independence the TAP wants to reflect; so, they dropped the issue. Silva noted that problems to consider with this proposal are 1) the funding available for the printing expense of adding the statement and 2) the funding of the TAP organization in the future. Since currently we have funding problems, we have no assurance that the TAP will exist in the near future, he said. Gorga added that funding problems are common to all IRS organizations. Shuman noted that as long as Congress mandates the IRS to partner with citizen organizations to act as focus groups, the TAP will exist. Discussion ensued on how to refer to the TAP in the statement. Since we want to reflect our independence from the IRS and our funding is separate from the Office of the Taxpayer Advocate, we should advertise ourselves as a “group of citizens named the Taxpayer Advocacy Panel”, some members said. Although all members concurred that we should assert our independence, no one could agree on how to describe the TAP in the statement. After a lengthy discussion, Nagel said that in the interest of space, the statement must be short. Ghoniem added that since the proposed statement suggests that taxpayers contact the TAP’s website, once in the website the taxpayer will know who the TAP’s members are and the mission of the organization. Grimaldi agreed with Ghoniem and suggested to elevate this proposal as written. Consensus was achieved. Knispel will elevate proposal to the Joint Committee.

Next, Grimaldi discussed his recent proposal on the Electronic Federal Tax Payment System to extend the period to access payments made through this system to thirty months. All members moved to elevate this proposal to the Joint Committee.

Subcommittee Reports
Financial Literacy- Grimaldi reminded the members that in an email dated December 16th , Knispel shared a link to the Fair Credit Reporting Act which Congress recently passed into law and includes financial literacy and education improvement. Grimaldi also said that he has discussed this lingering issue with the Joint Committee and asked for their recommendations on the subject - as he is currently partnering with Brooklyn Borough President to improve financial literacy in New York City (NYC). The Joint Committee recommended the use of the IRS website as a teaching tool. Grimaldi added that in two weeks he will also be meeting with a NY State Senator from Queens to discuss this issue. Gorga suggested two other ways to approach the issue in NYC: 1) contact the National Education Association (NEA) and 2) contact Mayor Bloomberg’s Department of Education and the Teachers’ Union to suggest that the IRS educational curriculum be implemented along with the public schools’ curriculum. These organizations may assist in disseminating information on the IRS’s website and curriculum. Ghoniem noted that the Multilingual Initiative Issue (MLI) Committee is working on the financial literacy issue for English As A Second Language (ESL) by recommending that the IRS partner with the Department of Education to reach ESL population nationwide. Grimaldi added that the Brooklyn Borough President ‘s agenda includes ESL literacy since Brooklyn is a borough with a multicultural population. Ghoniem invited Grimaldi to attend a MLI subcommittee teleconference at 1:00 P.M. today and will email him some information on this subcommittee’s recommendations.

EITC Examinations- Low Income Tax Clinic attorney Fred Arriaga prompted this issue. Kelly had volunteered to be part of this subcommittee but she needs direction from Grimaldi on how to approach it. Grimaldi will contact Arriaga to discuss the issue at length and get a list of the problems he encountered with the IRS. Kelly recommended that the issue with EITC examinations be studied from the practitioner’s point of view. She suggested looking into the tax preparers’ EITC Toolkit. There might be an area of the toolkit, she said, that Arriaga may consider is worth improving. Kelly will then expand on Arriaga’s suggestions with a proposal. Grimaldi presumes that the biggest problem with EITC examinations is the documentation that the IRS requests as proof of claim. For instance, how do you prove relationship?, he said. Kelly told him that the EITC Issue Committee made recommendations to the IRS on Form 8856, Qualifying Child Relationship Statement. Grimaldi promised Kelly to study the EITC Toolkit and the issue of determining relationships. Knispel stated that the issue of proving the EITC claim and documentation required to prove a claim is an issue for the EITC Issue Committee, not for the Area 1 Committee. Knispel explained that she understood Arriaga’s complaint to be one of non-communication between the IRS and the taxpayer or representative. Gorga and Nagel agreed. All members concurred that any recommendations made by the Area 1 on the issues of documentation and proving relationship be referred to the EITC Issue Committee. Grimaldi will follow up by contacting Arriaga to clarify his issues of concern, share these issues with all members, and consequently the Committee will agree on an action plan. Shuman volunteered to join this subcommittee.

Follow-Up Issues
Addressing Correspondence To “Deceased” Taxpayers – This issue originated from a taxpayer who called the TAP’s toll-free line. The call was registered on the TAP’s database. Knispel researched this issue with the Brookhaven and Andover Service Centers correspondence units and Brookhaven’s and local examination units. She sent all members a couple of emails detailing her findings. Knispel explained that correspondence units would not address the deceased taxpayer, only the surviving spouse, while the examination unit will address the deceased with the word “deceased” in the correspondence. The procedure has legal ramifications for joint tax returns and safety issues for identity theft protection. Knispel believes this was an isolated incident of the IRS contacting the surviving spouse via correspondence due to an examination of a joint tax return. Gorga added that the IRS is under obligation to address both spouses on the tax return when an examination is involved. Oloko understands the possible legal reasons why the correspondence is addressed in such manner. Fish added that this taxpayer neglected to provide the TAP with a correct phone number or other means to reach her and clarify her situation; she may have been a disgruntled taxpayer. The members agreed to drop this issue.

Training For “Toll-Free” Assistors - This is also a referral from the TAP’s database dealing with a taxpayer who called the TAP’s toll-free line to complain that the IRS should not have trainees staffing the IRS’s toll-free line and to suggest that the IRS does not outsource this phone-line. Knispel provided the members with her research findings on these two issues via email. Shuman remembered the information provided and according to it, the taxpayer’s situation seems to be an isolated incident. Gorga agreed. A couple of members could not recall the information provided by Knispel and asked she send the email again if possible. Grimaldi suggested to drop the issue and Shuman asked that it be placed in the parking lot for a certain amount of time in the event the situation occurs again.

Outsourcing the “Toll-Free Line” - Knispel provided information on the outsourcing of the IRS toll-free line in the same email as the one above. Knispel will send a copy of the email again for the benefit of those who did not read it. Ghoniem said that the issue with outsourcing is one of security. Grimaldi said that is similar to the next issue of consideration: Procerius, Inc.

Tax Voice Technology – Regarding Mr. Knox’s presentation at the October 2003 Area 1 teleconference about the use of this technology to automate the receipt of tax account information by taxpayers; Mr. Knox was referred to the IRS’ procurement function which could more appropriately address the technology he was offering the Service.

Form 9465 - This form, used to request an installment agreement with the IRS, does not mention the addition of penalties and interest to the tax liability, Kelly said; only its instructions do. The Form should incorporate an explanation that penalties could be added to the liability and so will interest. Gorga concurred and said that this explanation should be included in any form where the taxpayer enters into an agreement with the IRS such as the Form 433D. Although she referred this issue to the Committee, Kelly explained that she would be unable to dedicate time to work on this or any issue during the next three months. Meanwhile, Fish read Form 9465 during the meeting and said that line 11 of the Form does state “Make your payments as large as possible to limit interest and penalty charges”. Nagel added that this statement is also printed in bold letters. Kelly apologized; she may have used an old revision at the time she referred this issue. Consequently, members decided to drop the issue.

Automatic Six-Month Extension To File For Individuals – Fish and Grimaldi have heard that the IRS is looking into making this automatic extension possible. Grimaldi will research the information and share it with all the members.

Health Insurance Deduction For Employees With No Insurance – Shuman will continue working on this issue of making the deduction available to anyone who pays for their own health insurance whether they are self-employed or not. Shuman will formulate a proposal on this legislative issue and the Committee will refer it to Systemic Advocacy.

Form W-4 – Shuman will continue working on the employers’ responsibility to assure that employees name in Form W-4 matches the name as it appears in their Social Security Card. Shuman asked Gedge is he ever presented this issue to the Payroll Issue Committee. Gedge said he never had the opportunity and he is no longer a member of this Committee.

New Business
Ghoniem stated that the new regulations for ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) applicants have caused consternation in the community. Grimaldi explained that the IRS wants those seeking an ITIN to show a federal tax purpose for obtaining it. So, those applicants claiming that they need the ITIN to file a federal income tax return will have to attach the return to their application. Ghoniem added that the tax professionals are having issues with these requirements. Silva volunteered to work with Ghoniem on this issue when he learns more about the topic. Ghoniem will summarize the ITIN issue(s) and share the summary with the committee.

Joint Committee Report
At their last meeting, Grimaldi discussed the Quality Control of IRS Correspondence issue with the Joint Committee. The discussion originated from the IRS’s reply to Area 1’s recommendation to establish a quality control process. The reply was that it is not feasible for the IRS to meet the cost of hiring staff and provide the space and equipment needed to conduct 100% quality review of the correspondence sent to taxpayers. The Joint Committee suggested to Grimaldi that the issue be revisited by adding other recommendations. Ghoniem said that the only way to add support to the proposal would be by finding statistics that would indicate the issue to be a recurring problem. She suggested the issue be placed in the parking lot. All members agreed.

Another issue discussed at the Joint Committee meeting was recruitment. Nineteen TAP members have retired from the organization - Area 4 had the highest number of these members. The aim is to advertise the TAP using its website. Gedge asked if the TAP intends to replace the members who left or replace all members at once. Grimaldi said that the intent is to replace members as they leave. There is a recruitment initiative in motion.

Face-To-Face Meeting in New York
Grimaldi reminded members that the face-to-face meeting is scheduled for June 6, 7 & 8, 2004. Locations to consider are NYC, Portland, ME and Portsmouth, NH. The last one came under the allowed budget. Discussion ensued on the New Hampshire location and members commented that it was within close proximity to their residences. Knispel asked the members to discuss and select the location at the next meeting when Program Manager Ramirez would be present.

Closing Assessment
Grimaldi thanked all members for taking their time to participate in this long meeting and wished all happy holidays.

Meeting closed at 12:55 PM ET.

Next meeting will be Tuesday, January 20, 2004 at 11:00 am ET.

Action Items
Knispel will send the email containing researched information on training for “toll-free” assistors and outsourcing the IRS’s toll-free line.

Grimaldi will contact LITC Attorney Fred Arriaga to discuss EITC Examination issues of concern. The issues will be shared with the members.

Grimaldi will obtain information on the IRS’s efforts to extend the automatic four-month extension to file a tax return to six-months. Information will be shared with the members.

Shuman will write a proposal on the “Health Insurance Deduction For Employees With No Insurance” issue.

Shuman will write a proposal on the “Form w-4” issue.

Ghoniem will share with the members the concerns of the tax professional community in her area.